Anyone want to show PTC some love?

[tjallen29]

I'm noticing a definite trend lately. With 2008 approaching I'm seeing more and moreIntralink 3.x users begin to ask the question regarding which route to take when PTC pulls the plug, and most seem to be as confused as I am.


Another trend that I notice is that thosewho have made a move to either ILink 8.0 orPDMLink 8.0 are less than impressed. Functionality is lost, performance is terrible, it's buggy, it takes months to fine tune, etc. All this for something that PTC is essentially forcing you to do, AND spend a ton of dough to do. A lot of people also seem to be jumping ship and going with Design Data Manager which takes about a day to set up (instead of 6 weeks), costs less, and does the things that ILink 3.x could do but 8.0 can't.


What I'm looking for is to hear from those who are having good luck with ILink 8.0 or PDMLink 8.0 (if they exist) in an attempt to hear both sides. Are Windchill products getting a bad rap? Are there those who get the improved performance promised in all of those articles on PTC.com about how great it is?


What about Design Data Manager? Is there anyone who has opted for this software who wishes they hadn't? What pitfalls come with this option? How difficult is setup really?


I'm pretty much on the fence, myself. I like PTC and their products, but as someone who wants to keep productivity up, costs down, and b**ching at a minimum I want tobe sure I make the most informed decision that I can. Thanks!

 

[pete3000]

Avoid UGS teamcenter if you consider yourselves super users and work across multiple sites. We are really suffering!

 

[DataJett]

I have contracted & been perm for years.

As a designer, admin, programming, etc.

So I have used cad from all angles.

I have used UG, ProE, Acad, Catia, Solidworks & others that dont matter.

20,000 hrs on UG, 15,000+ hours on ProE.

I prefer admin/development over design, unless unemployed too long or design rate is good.

I am currently doing Windchill development & windchill installs before that (with stints of design & admin in between - not by choice).

I have had chances to get free smarteam & teamcenter training (with new perm
job). Great location &/or money. But I wont go because its not Windchill.

Heres why.

On the programming side, I prefer Java, JSP, J2EE etc.

Not into VB, C#, .Net, etc. I started there & ran to Java.

Prefer Oracle over the others (MS Sql Sefver, DB2, etc).

Windchill uses java, jsp, xml, etc well. It will run in front of Oracle & MS Sql Server
(not sure about others).

Every tool is buggy at first. It has been out awhile, but I think they worried more about product lifecycle management (PLM), than looking/running like Intralink.

Windchill is very robust. Intralink is limited.

Its web based, which allows for many corporate servers/dbs/etc.

It does well with data management & allows all employees to see product & its
full lifecycle. From start to finish. Even lets vendor/customer see product progress.

Its change management is vey robust. You can use OOB or customize to more functionality.

It can remove the paper change management world. All electronic. ECO, ECR, ECN
(whichever) are all routed through email, etc. Approvers, reviewers, etc (all change
review board assigned board members) can work from web.

You download, inspect, change design models, etc right through links in emails.

Dumps right in your workspace. Windchill resides within your ProE app/window.

All the progress of change management (CMII compliance), can be viewed through
flow diagrams/charts (pictorial diagrams), with links to every step along the way
(all signatures along the way). Called workflows.

Does the sameworkflow for all product history. Right froma web page. Right from
with in your proeapp/browser.

People will complain about complexity or cost.

Great tools usually wont be easy to use. But I think its a smooth interface, with not
so bad learning curve. Should get better.

And a tool that can possible take an existing 1 month change management task
& make it 1 week, is worth the extra few hundred per seat of intralink cost.

It connect with manufacturing well. It also works with integration verndors to
connect with great ERP systems, such as SAP. They use Tibco.

I do contract work. The only way I would go perm is if they have Windchill.

L. Jett

 

[DataJett]

Correction/Update/Explanation:

When I said:

And a tool that can possible take an existing 1 month change management task
& make it 1 week, is worth the extra few hundred per seat of intralink cost.

It might have made explained what I meant.

Last I recall, Intralink was over $1500/seat. Heavy user Windchill/PdmLink is near
$2500. Light user $1000.Both might have changed lately.

I was saying, if you can add Full LifeCycle functionally. Add Change Management
(CMII) & cut it form 1 month to 1 week. For only $1000 or less per seat.

I think its worth it.

Those that wont want to learn the new interface, are the same type that didnt want
to go to 3D (from 2D), To ProE from Acad, etc.

You have to have users, admins, etc who are willing to grow with the time.

There are large companies that have other than ProE & still use Windchill as a
database manager. Maybe even full PLM.

Thats because windchill will also manage many other cad systems: Catia,
Solidworks, Acad, Unigraphics, etc.

Only way to go for me.

L. Jett

 

[caddie]

Pete3000: What are your issues with Teamcenter and how are you using it?


Are you using it as afull-blown PDM system with articles, structures, attributes, CM and the whole kit or are you using it"only"as a CAD/document system?


Sorry if this is considered hijacking the thread (?), but I am very curious!

 

[DataJett]

Hey Caddie:

It sounded like Pete3000 was having networking issues. He said:

"Avoid UGS teamcenter if you consider yourselves super users and work across multiple sites. We are really suffering!"

If he is: "using it"only"as a CAD/document system?" & is having networking
issues. I would imagine he would have many more issues if he was using it for
as a "full-blown" PDM System.

Network issues are network issues. Either he needs to tune his application,
database, server ram or cache usage, etc. Or the software does not work well
across a network.

I cant say that Windchill works perfect across a network. It needs lot of tuning
for useage across multiple servers &/or on a large database.

But once your network, database & numbers of users gets large, you can expect
some tuning will be needed.

Its hard to know which PDM/PLM system works best across large networks, unless
you can run both/multiple simultaneously.

Thats hard to afford.

L. Jett

 

[pete3000]

Ahhh UGS teamcenter. well you know we have been using now for 2 years so you can bet UGS probably has 2 more versions out since what we have. When you buy and install software you slowly work your way to upgrades becasue of heavy customization. for ex: we are still using wf 2 even tho wf 4 pre-production will be out in a month.


So that being said. we have facilities all over the states and in mexico. Our servers have to sync at midnight every night. if someone makes a change in mexico, you wont see that change until the very next morning. In intralink it was instantaneous.


Now by my estimate for every 2.5 hours i work in pro/e, i need an admin to perform 1 task.


we have also reverted to putting our large assys on netwrork drives again like the pre-intralink days. TCE doesn't work well with merged parts (when migrated)or by layouts that were designated and that drive our large assys.


Soo many other issues. Second, workflows are by no means user friendly to the non-engineers that have to sign them. Oh and by the way if you send a drawing sign-off between plants, now they have to use a web portal that looks nothing like the TCE My Navigator app. even more confusing for the non super user.


when you have to search for something that was migrated in intralink at another site, you may not find it. You have to do a second "REMOTE search".


Now try to find a part that uses a vendor number parameter inside pro/e. UGS will extract that paramter and you can find it. but only at teh site you are currently at. Also, you cannot search these vendor parameters using "remote search". that only finds the top level part number.


i hate to cry, but i am just frustrated that none of this was considered during the evaluation phase and its been a year and a half and these issues still arent fixed.


soo many more issues. I wish we had stayed with PTC products. anything had to be better then this. It simply is not user freindly and very very very admin intensive.


Prerequisites for installing UGS' TCE should be:


add 512MB of ram to each machine that will run the TCE client (the java app sucks close to 300MB after it is opened)


Hire 2 more admins at each site totally dedicated to fixing migration issues and then, fix permission problems after that and the 87,000 questions coming from the end users every minute as the "business transformation" moves along to eventually assimilate us into the Borg collective.


Finally, install a boxing ring for the end users to take out their frustraton when using it. Put a stuffed dummy in the ring with the face of the man that made that decision to go to UGS. (did i say that out loud?) By now he has been promoted and moving on. Doesn't care about the men battling this in the trenches.


sorry to cry, but .. thanks for asking! I can go to sleep now!