From the "Ton of Bricks" Department

[dlongmi]

I'll admit this post has no real redeeming value. However, today 08/02/05, I just realized why all the surface training has been offered in the last year.


Ibelieve it was because Datum on the Fly was removed in Wildfire. Creating features in WildFire is markedly MORE difficult, time consuming andfeature hoggish without DOTF. What was once easy to make with DOTF is now a PITA. Many features now require surfaces extending beyond where the resultant feature will reside or the cluge of datums to get there. 200 feature modles are now 500 features. Pretty dumb and time consuming. And....the real issue is the bounding box issue someone had recently. Pro/E rarely had accuracy issues but now with surfaces extenting out to wherever it can have an effect on the data. Really dumb and potentially dangerous. I think many people, for a long time,misunderstood surfaces in Pro as some holy grail or something foreign. Many didn't understand the usefulness of a surface over a solid feature. With WF people had to get used to it. Great for the trainers out there...but we as users havesuffered. Not to mention that a surface model is much bigger in size that a truly solid feature model. Time is money.....


Again no real point but I have been on WF since it came out and and Pro since 7 and dopey me didn't make the quick connect until now. Surfaces were never a big deal...just in a days work. But now I get it.

PTC...CYA after the fact.


Over and out on that one.


Oh....I have not been following the WF3 stuff. PLEASE tell me DOTF is back is the fold. I can't stand how the my models look in WF1 and 2. It looks like I am back in year one.






Edited by: dlongmi

 

[Brian_Adkins]

Make Datums
Prior to r20, Pro/E had the ability to create "Make_Datum" features. These were datum planes created "on the fly" and used for feature construction. They were created internal to another feature and were not re-usable outside that feature. Additionally, only planes could be created (no axes, points, etc.). These hidden datums were always actually features, but you just couldn't see them and they did not show up in the model tree... (So in your example, your old 300-feature model may have had 200 make-datum features that still required regeneration time from your CPU).


Asynchronous Datums
In Pro/E rev 20, PTC added Asynchronous Datums, another type of "datum on the fly". These allow you to create any type of datum feature at any time, even while creating another feature. This was accomplished just by hitting the datum plane button when you were asked for a sketching plane, for example. It's been a while, but I believe that these datums were put into the model tree above the 'parent' feature.


Make-Datum disappears with Wildfire 1.0
In Pro/E Wildfire 1.0, PTC removed the Make-Datum functionality. Their reasoning has been discussed ad-nauseum in the PTC/User email exploder over the years, but it basically boiled down to the fact that these duplicated functionality present with asynchronous datums with the exception that they were not hidden.


There was also an important difference when it came to modifying feature that contained an 'embedded' Make-Datum... If you modified a feature containing a true Make-Datum, the dimension for the Make-Datum displayed along with all the other feature dims... This was not the case for Asynchronous Datums in WF1 (I think...)


Asynchronous Datums get hidden in Wildfire 2.0
In Wildfire 2.0, when you create a datum on the fly using an asynchronous datum, that new datum feature automatically gets group into the 'parent' feature (as it did pre-wildfire) AND it gets hidden (as it did pre-wildfire).


Also, in WF2.0, when you edit a feature [group] containing embedded datum(s), you will also see the driving dimensions for those datums appear simultaneously for editing.





My memory is pretty sketchy, so some of the stuff above may not be accurate, but it's close.


-Brian
Edited by: Brian_Adkins

 

[jrobi]

I personally dont find it to bothersome to make the datum now, as all you have to do is select the 'create datum" icon, and you GAIN the ability to modify that datum's specifics...so- not a biggie for me personally...

 

[MFegenbush]

I very much enjoy being able to use the new quasi make-datum (planes,
specifically) in other features. I think that it simplifies my
references (i.e. only have to change the position of one datum when
editing a part). I can see where it would get frustrating, but I
roll with the punches.

 

[mganzer]

In WF 3.0 the datums "on-the-fly" will be embeded parallel to the sketch. You will see them under the feature in the tree with the sketch, so it will not be creating groups anymore.

 

[Brian_Adkins]

Good call, Mark... This is what it looks like in WF3.0... Automatically hidden and embedded directly into the feature (no group created).
View attachment 1117


Unfortunately, once I created the above embedded datum, WF3.0would not allow me to select it as a reference for a subsequent feature (e.g., a sketched curve)...


I'm hoping that this gets changed/fixed before WF3.0 ships (next year)


-Brian
Edited by: Brian_Adkins

 

[Moroso]

Thanks Brian for the write up, that was very informative.


I was screaming when I heard PTC was doing away with Datum on the Fly but when I tried the new way i found it better than the old, mainly being able to reuse a datum from a previous feature.


The only thing I didn't like at that time was you neede to know what to pick to get what you want vs. apickig a menu that tells you what it is you're going to do. (does that make sense

)

 

[dlongmi]

What is counter productive for me after all this time on Pro is all the necessary and explicit setup required now to get to features. It's hard to explain to someone that has not been on the system for awhile or reached true proficiency. But I liken it to the difference between Arnold Palmer's golf swing and Tiger Woods'. While Arnold's is effective it's very mechanical, awkwardand forced where Tiger's is graceful and powerful. Arnold's is brute forcewhere Tiger's is fluid force. Both get the job done, just one is prettier than the other and gets there with less energy.


Maybe I am just mental about the whole deal. I still make my parts day in and day out. But it's really hard tolive in sucha forced, non-elegant and awkwardPro/E world.

Thanks for letting me vent some PTC steam.
Edited by: dlongmi

 

[phoxeoy]

Brian, Tell if I'm wrong here but I noticed if you unhide a datum that you could select it as a referance. Is this possible?

 

[Brian_Adkins]

I can unhide it and it shows up normally. I can even select it... But I am unable to use it to populate a "skecthing plane reference collector" for another feature.


First I unhid & selected the embedded datum. Then I clicked the "sketch" icon (sketched curve). Pro/E throws out my selection and leaves me with an empty reference field. I can thenselect other datum planes to fill this field, but selecting the embedded datum has no effect...


I've tried this in both WF3.0 B000 and C000(pre-production versions).


Please do let me know if you've been able to get this to work!


-Brian
Edited by: Brian_Adkins

 

[SixthChameleon]

DOTF features were a convenience only at the time of creation. In all other situations, they were an extreme PITA. The fact that they didn't appear in the model tree was a visually simplifying, but then a user had to do a considerable amount of investigation to discover them and had to specifically be searching for them if the model was not his own. They were not redefineable, but could only be rerouted using the same reference scheme, and even then not directly, but either through a reroute of the parent feature or if the DOTF feature failed and the model entered resolve mode. When a parent feature in a large assembly failed, it was already difficult enough to discover the source of the problem, let alone when the failure diagnostic displayed "could not recreate internal datum".


I say good riddance. Even if the ability to referenceinternal datumfeatures externally is not implemented in WF 3.0 (I can't see why it wouldn't though) as Brian points out, it will still be a massive improvement over the old DOTF functionality.

 

[airion]

I can't beleive anyone is still bitching about not having datum on the fly. If you can't think atleast one step ahead when creating a model you must be a very poor cad operator. If you can't picture atleast a rough idea of the order you are going to create your features to reach your design intent you probably are very inefficient at completing models.