Rhino vs Pro/Surface & ISDX

[pro_eek]

A question that Bart may answer:


How does Rhino compare to Pro/Surface and ISDX for surfacing? Rhino is cheaper than ISDX. Would it be a better buy to use Rhino for surfacing and just import into Pro/E to finish. Why would you import Rhino surface parts into Pro/E?


Can someone please compare Rhino and Pro/E surfacing pros and cons. Thanks

 

[78finn]

Once you import a Rhino Surface into Pro E you loose all control over it - it becomes a dumb part for refference only. Fine for very simple products that are not subject to many mods - but a nightmare when used as part of a large assembly subject to possible design/tool mods.

Spend the extra cash and by Pro Surface/ISDX...over the last three years or so, it has become so much better/user friendly and will increase your work flow, making changes to major geom so much less stressfull and timely.

Pro's and Con's. Rhino is possible easier to learn...but if you are already using Pro E...well I don't even think you have to look at the Pros and Cons. Doing all in one program is always prefferable to using two non transferbale formats, from a commercial perspective at least.

 

[dgs]

To steal Bart's line, it's not how fast you can model it once, it's how fast you can change it 10 times later. Or to paraphrase it, it's not what you save on the software, it's what your investment in the software saves you later on each and every project.

If you start in Rhino and finish in Pro|E, any changes that alter the Rhino generated surfaces - and there will be some - will cause all or most of the Pro|E features to fail. Now whatever you saved in buying Rhino instead of ISDX, you will spend in fixing your Pro|E features on your first project.

 

[[-Skint-]]

What dgs said... not to mention the time/cost/effort in learning Rhino from scratch

 

[design-engine]

some companies have used Rhino effectively within their design process where ID'ers realize their own photoshop designs in 3d using Rhino. Then the Engineering staff then remodels the form using Pro/ENGINEER.The word that scares so many is the word remodel.

Realize remodel is different that re-design.

It took the designers 6 weeks to realize a form in rhino and 6 days to remodel it in Pro/E. The value of remodel technique (and I skipped that techniques part because that is 16 hours worth of chat/examples too much for a forum discussion....)The value of remodel technique is the engineers can force draft changes while still capturing the integrity of the designers model. Ive seen companies utilize this workflow quite well. Managers on the other hand get upset when they see work redone.... the problem comes when the engineer takes too long or does not have the modern surfacing techniques to capture the rhino model. and does not understand how light reflects off form... etc. Which is why design engine exists in the first place... to empower those working with industrial designers.
Edited by: design-engine

 

[pro_eek]

Thanks for all the comments, all duly noted

 

[design-engine]

I should also note that an experienced/fast rhino user can not model any faster than a fast/experienced proe surface modeler.

The difference is that once the model is created in Rhino you cant modify it.... simply delete portions and remodel it.

In Pro/ENGINEER if you use lattice structures or 3d bounding boxes and other techniques you can modify the model after it has been surfaced.I call this proving form. While rhino you remodel... proe you modify to prove out the form.

Rhino is has it's place I guess. I would never use it.

 

[gristle]

..........
The difference is that once the model is created in Rhino you cant modify it.... simply delete portions and remodel it. ..............

Is it like Studio Tools in that regard?
I know Rhino 4 has a history feature but I am not sure how deeply it is integrated.

There are some nice tools in Rhino for deforming surfaces and closed solids without them tearing along the seams...

I've been caught out with RHino before. Ended up copying a model to a new layer before adding blends or fillets, just in case I needed to alter the base geometry. Quicker than exploding the part and untrimming the surfaces.

 

[design-engine]

the history (functionality) in Rhino is not yet comparable to Alias Studio ... however I should point out that very few designers actually try to utilize that parent child relationships that we have grown so used too.
Edited by: design-engine

 

[dgs]

... I should point out that very few designers actually try to utilize that parent child relationships that we have grown so used too.

Ours do. Perhaps not to the extent that the engineers do, but they do.

 

[design-engine]

in Alias?

 

[dgs]

Oh, uh, no.

I didn't catch the Alias context, sorry. I was talking about Pro|E / SW.

 

[design-engine]

I have pushed Alias to utilize the parent child relations... developed some new techniques using alias to do what we do in Pro/ENGINEER.Its still better (once the model is set up properly using structures and underlying curve geometry) to prove form in Pro/ENGINEER.

Anyone in Chicago this weekend might want to come out onto the Autobahn Country Club in Joliet 40 minutes out from Chicago. Ill be there going as fast as possible!Come watch me pass liter bikes with a six hundred CC Yamaha. http://www.autobahncountryclub.net/
Edited by: design-engine

 

[rklatte]

I know this is a late contribution to this discussion, but I think Rhino can create G3 and G4 curves and surface connections, which is something that Pro/E can't do (at least not easily). But what this means in a practical sense, I can't really tell you

Additionally, Rhino has a lot of built-in tool to work with mesh models (e.g. stl's). I've only experimented with these a little bit so I can't say whether e.g. it would be worthwhile to bring the mesh into Rhino first, creating the necessary curves and maybe surfaces, then exporting to Pro/E. Maybe.

Overall though, I don't think the workflow disruption that Rhino -> Pro/E would create would be worth the savings. Now that the Surface Edit capability was added to ISDX in WF4 there is even less of a reason to do that.

 

[andyboy]

I use them both and love them both.


Rhino is incredibly easy to learn and fast, fast, fast. It can open a huge variety a files and quickly manipulate them. I work with industrial designers every day and we couldn't function without it.


ProSurface can build anything that Rhino can build, but can be cumbersome in setup. Most of the time the ID guys are way out ahead of me with Rhino. They don't really care if a model stitches together. They just want to see something fast. I was using ISDX for a while and it has some nice features, but I don't bother with it anymore. ProSurface works great for me and ISDX is way too expensive. The benefits aren't worth the cost. ProE really shines when it comes to long term development of a design. You can model everything up, then tweak the dimensions until everything works.


I recommend using Rhino for quick ID development, renderings, 2D exploration, and as a tool for file translations, etc. When it gets to real product development, build everything in ProE and stay in ProE. Importing surfaces is asking for trouble.

 

[Metoo]

Pr_eek, your question brought out some very revealing replies, in so much as those replies revealed much about the true depths of the respondants' modeling abilities, and their reliance on a history tree.


As for myself, I don't use Rhino. Not that your question aboutusingits a starting point to surface modeling was a bad one; it is used by many. If youlearned 3-d modeling in the last ten years, or when Pro-e first hit the market, you are probably addicted to a history tree. If that is the case, you probablynever really learned how to do 3-d modeling or surfacing, and the thought of dealing with geometery with no history tree probably sends dribble down your legs.For some, this is like meeting the boogy man in the dark of the night.


Don't buy Rhino because you think it is a cheeper way to get into surface modeling. Get it and use it as a basis to learn how to do surface modeling. If you do, and stick with it, you'll eventually become proficient enough to laugh at the boogy man and get a chuckle from those who fear him.


Flayl Payne