software comparison

[TWINTURBOTOM]

I am and always have been a Pro/e guy....now that i'm spending MY MONEY on PLM stuff i'm searching for a good deal....


I'm buyinga package soon...Pro/e along with blue ridge numerics CFD upfront (the setup I am using now and love), Solidworks with cosmos flow works, UGS + NX, or Catia.....


Solidworks and cosmos...has impressed me over the past few weeks, however it is not as good as pro/e...some examples...it is missing the ability to use equations to create curves (can be done using macros but I question the accuracy of enteringexcel data to drive curves) and also the ability to use datum graphs or even equations with a trajpar like variable to vary dimensions of cross sections...Solidworks however directly interfaces with cosmos and makes the work flow from design to analysis very simple. Dare I say it but I think in a few yrs solidworks may pass pro/e...SW came along way with surface modeling in the past two versons...honestly if they had a VSS and equation driven curves i wouldnt' think twice about SW...the integration with CFD and FEA is key to me....not to mention that a package of SW comes with motion, animation...etc...without the need of hundreds of floating modules at extra costs....


Catia and UG I have no experience with...those are the main reasons I post this...From what I have read and seen (website demos) UG is a cross between solidwork and pro/e (very loosely)....being UG having a windows type interface that integrates directly to CFD, FEA..and has top notch surfacing / modeling....i'm not sure if it hasvariable section sweep by way of equations type capabilites (pretty imporant to me).


any info on comparisons??


My only real problem with Pro/e is it's lack of integrated CFD capabilities....The issue is that I then have to buy a seperate CFD package (like CFDupfront that i use now or Fluent, which i used and like in the past)....that drives the cost of my package up... .when I buy an all inclusive package such as SW and cosmos or UG + NX I get more for my money...not to mention the ease of opening CAD native parts in a CFD enviornment


this is a pro/e forum and all but i'm sure you guys have used other packages or at least have some input.....


I'm for Pro/e all the way but I have to determine if a substaintal amount of my money can be saved with the risk of zero loss in production/ design. Right now the SW+cosmos reseller i'm talking to cansave me around 8K from the pro/e + CFD package...is it 8K worse???? def not....i really only see the lack in some surface modeling and the loss of equation driven variable sections.....


25K max budget....

 

[magneplanar]

twinturbotom,

It sounds like you have already made up your mind and just want validation. I suggest you do two things:

A) narrow the choices to two by being careful to see exactly what you get and what you do not get. Insist on a breakdown of what the software offers and what parts of that larger package they will give you. ( both pro-e and SW have add ons)
B) Play the resellers against each other by telling them what the other offers and see what they can do to sweeten the deal, even if the offer is lower as you described.

In the end, get what you need to do the job. Before you pick one, ask for a demo copy to play around with. If you can't work the interfaces then you would have wasted your money until you get up to speed. Don't believe the reseller when he says the competition only comes without what you need. What you get is what you negotiate for. So if the software package has the function, it is your job as a consumer to get the best deal.

cheers,

M


Edited by: magneplanar

 

[trillicomm]

First of all, you forgot that Mathcad is integrated inside Proe. That takes care of equation makings if you don't like Excel.

The race of getting the softwares to interface with each other is never over. Don't worry about what the salesmen say today. Tomorrow will be another software upgrade.

Companies spend mega $$$ to stay with one CAD, and will likely stay with one forever....whether it's Proe, UGS, Solidworks, Solidedge, Inventor...etc. It costs too much to switch from 3D to another 3D. So pick one with the largest customer base, and stay with it. Toyota uses ProE and they are the main reason why there're many great enhancements coming out for the next Wildfire 4 or 5. NASA uses ProE. DELL and HP computers also use ProE. My question to you is what do you use your CAD for? Consulting CAE, NC CAM, CAD contracting? What industry are you servicing to? Oil/Gas, semiconductor, medical, auto. You didn't really say what you do except something about surfacing. If so, ProE is superior in surfacing. The nose of the Space Shuttle is designed by ProE surfacing. The Lotus Elise body is also by ProE. Need I say more? Softwares evolve because of the customer base. The bigger the customer base, the more likely the software will change to accomodate "one size fits all". The race is always on. In fact it just begins. Companies are getting rid of cadkey, autocad, 2D softwares. They want 3D. And these salesmen are clouding your decision makings. It's good that you post message on this board. But this is a ProE board, you're not going to get a non-biased answers from most of us. Let me tell you this story. We hire a Solidworks guru to do ProE design. He bitches so much about ProE in the first place. After one year, he loves ProE in everything as in advanced level. He quits because the pay sucks. He went to work for another company that uses both Proe and Solidworks. After a few months , I asked him about his thoughts on the user-friendliness of both CAD. He answered: "both ProE and Solidworks are the same pain in the butt".. I laughed. Solidworks licenses a few technology from SolidEdge which is owned by UGS (Unigraphics). Probably to make things easy to use in the beginning. But if you manage 100's parts in an assembly, both CAD's aren't different from each other except ProE will handle massive assembly in its uniques way which I like it very much. For example: the interchange assembly, simplified rep, family tables..etc. I don't know a whole lot about the kernel. ProE uses their own kernel, I think. So it's harder to use, and they're doing something about it to make it more user-friendly. ProE pioneered 3D for middle-size business, UGS is more for large-size business, CATIA is more for auto industry..Pro has no parent company, Solidworks is owned by French company, UGS is owned by a German company...who will rule? Probably the one without the parent restrictions. ProE has Mathcad and Windchill, and Arbortext. They have a superior Pro/NC that will seal the CAM side. The CAE is what ProE will go after. All they need to do is buy a CFD company. There's about a dozen of CFD softwares that need to be acquired. Pro/Mechanica was an acquired FEA company. Will PTC acquire a CFD company for the other CAE? You bet! It's a matter of time. They have too many things on their plates at the moment. Most CFD is still hard to use. Some translators are still full of bugs. A few has matured..the hunt is on.

You can't lose if you pick one of the top three CAD. A little about me, for example: I work for three industries (at diff. times): semiconductor, computer, and currently oil&gas. I chose ProE and will stay with it. So far, ProE Wildfire makes me shine at work because I know why and how Proe was designed. So I know how to troubleshoot it. You will find that troubleshooting a failed model is the key to any CAD. I digress....at this point, I am learning how to integrate Mathcad into ProE. And JLink. Jlink is a java in Proe that works with Windchill for PLM and PDM. Having said that, picking a CAD system requires a PDM system as well. Windchill has PDMLink and ProjectLink (works with MS Project)... I use them everyday, although I need to use more Pro/M and Pro/NC....

The bottom line is that PTC has everything on green light except the CFD package. That aspect will be done under an acquisition. Solidworks is spending $$$ to market their products. And ProE is learning that at Solidworks' expense on every step. I think ProE needs a slap in the face such as Solidworks competition. For a long time, ProE didn't think Solidworks can pick up marketshare. But now, with WF4 and 5 are in the process, PTC is healthy and well. Thanks for Solidworks for turning on the race. Again, for mid-size business, ProE and Solidworks are the finalists. Pick either one is fine. For maintenance, if picking an BMW vs Lexus you tell me if they have high or low maintenance fees..now that's a big dollar question. For PTC, I get a technical support in a few hours, they even remote control my computer. Nice!

UGS is meant for the larger size business. So I leave it alone.

I ramble because this thread has yet reached the mass population. Tell me if I am wrong..I may add something later.




Edited by: trillicomm

 

[TWINTURBOTOM]

excellent input guys....


magne....i am pretty much made up....the $ part is what is throwing me off....


trillicom....your rightPTC only has to make an acquisition of CFD then they are the best... I know matchcads integration with pro/e...i was dissing solidworks ability to work with equations....


CFD is the main part of what I do.....I am in the works for doing consulting but I also have several innovative products for the turbomachinery, automotive, and electronics packaging (what I do now) industries...i'm all over the board... I also design custom front bumpers for mainly import cars (why Imentioned surfacing) and my main customer is increasing volume so now me showing up there every now and then to use their liscense won't work...which is one large reason why i'm "on the hunt".


why say UGS is for large industry? Eventually one day I would want to scale up...i don't think SW will scale up as well as the other options....


i need tobrake down the pro/e's packages and remove the things I don't need. I really hate when i'mat workand want to do a couple of things and pro/e says...don't have the ability...see PTC.com... i dont' want to ever see that.... We mainly deal in SheetMetal so advanced surfacing stuff i want to play with at lunch isn't something my day jobneeds...


I need to use the resellers to get a better deal....i have to tell the PTC guys that the solidworks guy is giving me more for 8K less....


Also Solidworks is a mid range modeler spun off by Catia's dessault systems....that means it will either stay mid range (because that is Dessaults intention for the product in the market) or it will spin off, which would takesome company buying it,to become a higher end "competition" for catia....i don't think that will happen...which means it's governed to be mid range (waht ever that means)

 

[looslib]

UGS' NX is used by GM globally. it is also used by a lot of plastic injection mold makers. NX Cam is probably the best in the business. It is where NX started from.


Solidworks was not "spun off by Catia's dessault systems". It was started by one of the founders of PTC and acquired by Dassault. It does use core components that it licenses from UGS, like the Parasolids modeling kernel and the constraint managers.


Toyota only uses Pro/e for drive train components, not the whole car.