Solidworks / brain washing

[Guest]

I was surfing the web this afternoon and decided to stop off (for kicks and giggles) at the solid works home page (http://www.solidworks.com). Would you believe that they are offering Pro/e users a so called upgrade so that they can use solid works with pro/e??



Here's the statement: Visit the Pro/E Upgrade Center to find out how SolidWorks helps Pro/E users realize the full potential of 3D.



Sorry, Pro/E would have to downgrade to meet their level

 

[dougr]

The downgrade process has been happening for years.



A case-in-point, removal of make-datums in Wildfire..

 

[swcalvert]

To dougr: Do you think that Wildfire has removed the 'make-datums feature? It's just in a different place.



To hazmatt: Are you saying that the look of a CAD tool makes it somehow perform different? Pro/E will still have most of its core features no matter how it looks on the outside, just maybe now, it will be easier to use.



Steve C

 

[lcoates68]

Wildfire has removed 'make datums'! They are not just in a different place. A true 'make datum' is essentially embeded in the feature, if you make an offset datum on the fly when you modify the feature the offset dim shows up along with the feature dims. If you want to modify the offset dim with a Wildfire so-called 'make datum' you must specifically select the datum to modify it.

 

[dougr]

make datums has been in Pro/E as long is I've been using it (R9).



It could almost be a trade mark..



One of the big deficiences in SolidWorks in my mind is the choice of reference geometry. The datum-plane creation choices are pitiful and they certainly don't have a make-datum feature..

 

[swcalvert]

lcoates68, when you create a datum on the fly, it is now embeded in a group along with the feature. Isn't this about the same as 2001? You can hide the datum and you can edit the datum from within the group you just have to go to the model tree to expand the group first.



BTW, since I'm new to Pro/E, I can say that I really like creating datums on the fly, wether it be in 2001 or Wildfire. I can't do this in UG.



Steve C

 

[dougr]

I just got this mailer from SolidWorks:



Dear Doug,



As a CAD user you know how critical engineering drawings are in the design process. But did you also know that the proven capabilities of SolidWorks

 

[lcoates68]

A datum embedded in a group is not the same as embedded in the feature. It is a waste of time to have to navigate the tree just to modify a dimension which you should be able to select on the model itself. Another thing is you end up with unnecessary clutter in the tree from these datums. A third point is if you want to group your feature with other features you must ungroup the datum/feature first (you can't group groups). And no 'swcalvert' it is not the same as 2001!

 

[dougr]

With make-datum we were able to create several datum-planes at one time. eg create a plane thru an axis and at an angle to another plane, hit restart and we could use this plane to offset from - this was really slick and useful.



The only prob was that this feature didn't work in redefine so we ended up having to completely recreate features created in this manner - it took them up to R18 to finally fix this !!!



Can you create multiple datums-on-the-fly in Wildfire ???

 

[Guest]

Can you still create multiple make-datums in 2001? I've never heard of this before, and it sure sounds handy. Although when I try it in 2001 it doesn't work. It restarts that make-datum. So when you said they fixed it, do you mean they took it out, or fixed the redefine?

 

[dougr]

It's still in 2001, just need to make sure that datum-planes in your environment are on. You should see all your make-datums in cyan and they are selectable.



You can also go thru select by menu and you'll see it listed there (named dtm **). When the feature is completed they are all internal to it and don't show up in the model tree or feature list.



I meant they fixed redefine to allow this.

 

[Guest]

Ok. I'm getting it now. You have to click Setup New instead of Restart.



Slick!

 

[dougr]

Sorry..

 

[dougr]

On some features I've needed to use as many as 3 make-datums to fully define them.



Imagine how useful this is for patterning.



If I had to create each datum-plane prior to feature creation, it would require 4 features where only one is necessary and involve creating and patterning groups.



Avoiding datum-plane hell is always good..

 

[bem]

Maybe those of you going to Orlando should have some T-shirts printed up saying something like:



Save datums-on-the-fly



Or maybe some presenters could incorporate them in in their wildfire presentation... only to do an unblank all and have a proliferation of datums to appear on the screen.



Can't think of a better captive audience

 

[dougr]

Make datums work really well:



View attachment 200



DTM1 was the 1st make-datum and DTM2 was offset from this (using Setup New). The resultant feature looks like:



View attachment 201



Not the best example but it does illustrate the principle.



Their principal use is to control datum-plane proliferation and simplify patterning.



WildFowl seems to be a step backward - at least in this case..

 

[swcalvert]

lcoates68, I guess it's a shame you can't include a group in a group. Maybe PTC will offer that in the next version of Wildfire.

And, I didn't say it was the same, only about the same. I can't start using Wildifre in production until the stupid PDM system, that I'm forced to use, comes out in June (Ha Ha).



Steve C

 

[lcoates68]

It would be nice to be able to group groups sometimes.



PTC still needs to add the 'make-datum' functionality back into Wildfire...the pre-Wildfire 'make-datum' is an incredibly important feature to have.



And I still have to disagree that the Wildfire 'so-called-make-datum' is about the same....not true.

 

[dougr]

I guess I need to get somethings clear.



We create a feature (cut, protrusion or whatever) which required a datum-plane to be created on-the-fly in Misfire which needs to be patterned.



Suppose for patterning to work another, second datum-plane is required.



Do we have to ungroup this feature and then group again to include the second datum-plane ???



Another point:



I have a feature that requires two datum-planes to fully define it and then create a pattern with 50 instances.



With make-datum this is easy, I just click on the the feature to be patterned, click the appropriate dimension and enter the increment, number of instances and done-complete.



Pattern complete with only 50 instances and without any superfluous datum-planes.



How would this be done in Wildfoul now ?? Would you end up with an additional 100 datum-planes ??

 

[ProFishent]

While I do agree they are easier, and more convenient in initial models, I think they are more trouble than they are worth. Personaly I will not miss Datums OTF. I have always taught that good modeling practice is not to use them anyway. They are hard to redefine and reroute. If you take the extra 3 mouse clicks to group the features, you have much better conrol. There is nothing you can do with OTF datums, that you cant do with groups. I think PTC listened to the input from it's users when it decided to do away with this confusing(to newbies mainly, I admit), and troublesome function.