CREO - First Impression?

[dgs]

With the "old"Menu Manager interface,the workflow is such that thesoftware interfaceisalways trying topresent thetask at handto you in a logical progression; ie there is alwaysa "start", and then there isultimately a"finish." The dashboard really doesn't give you any sort of guidance orprogression in this respect, and can be difficult to understand what's going on at times.The interfaceis just not very intuitive.

I'll have to dissagree here. Not having a defined, actually a forced, order is a benefit. I can pick the up to surface plane before sketching, to tweak output options (surface/solid, cut/protrude, thin/solid) at will and have all the options right in front of me is much, much better than the old menu manager interface. There are certainy many nits to pick, but overall it's far better in my view.

 

[gelanz]

Here is an example while I look for my list. I quit
updating it 6 months ago. I filed an SPR with PTC and
they cancelled it two weeks later. When working in
simplified reps you often need to activate a model so you
search for the model to add to your rep. The issue here
is PTC did not write the search engine correctly. The
search engine will not look for filenames directly that
are not in session. Even though you can see the file in
the model tree the search tool must look inside each file
for its name. That takes allot of time when working in a
simplified rep when all parts are not in session. About
half the time it returns no results even though you can
see the filename in the model tree! That is why it takes
so much time. I call this very sloppy programing. If the
file does not play install techsmith camtasia codec.
http://www.techsmith.com/codecs.asp

http://gelanz.com/ptc/slow_searching.avi
Ps. tesdted in WF5 still slow.

 

[SW]

I think the dash board is generally better than the menu manger, but I certainly don't want it taking up anymore screen space. But I do think the slide up pannels are largely not needed. Why not just use the full width of the dashboard to display the options?

Sam

 

[gelanz]

What about lost functionality? In 2001 we could set the
model tree width in the config.pro. Now it defaults to one
size. And why does WIldfire never maximize the window?
Every time I fire up Wildfire there is and inch and a half
or two of desktop on the right side? It is just and
annoyance.

 

[kdem]

Not that it will speed things up but you can keep excluded items from showing in the model tree. Something that might help with excluded items is you can create a layer that searches for items that are not retrieved if you open a simplified rep. When you regenerate the assembly after opening parts that are not in session will populate the layer. Seems like the option could be added to the general search. Model tree width is controlled by the config.win. You set it using Customize Screen under Navigation Tabs.

 

[Volunteer]

gelanz, add this to your config.pro file. windows_scale 1
This will maximize your screen on start up.

 

[Freecat]

I'll have to dissagree here. Not having a defined, actually a forced, order is a benefit. I can pick the up to surface plane before sketching, to tweak output options (surface/solid, cut/protrude, thin/solid) at will and have all the options right in front of me is much, much better than the old menu manager interface. There are certainy many nits to pick, but overall it's far better in my view.

You're right and I completely agree. You shouldn'tbe limited in the order or wayyou would like to work. However, I guess what I failed to say is that Iwhile I think the dashboard set up is animprovement,for the casual user, there is a level of guidance that is missing andwould be beneficial to them. I think this is where Solidworks really takes away market share. Maybe Creo will bridge this ease of use gap. Certainly we'll have to wait and see how this Creo thing all shakes out.


One question I have, why not have the freedom to work as you would like without constraintsin order of completion, but also have that built in guidance that helps people who don't use the software on a regular basis actually be able to use it, with intuitiveguidance built in to the interface. In my view it could be set up to bethat way.


For myself,as an example, if there is a modelingcommand I haven't used in a whileI find the need to go out and seek help in some form or another to get back up to speed with the dashboardinterface for that command. There should be a solution to this as I know I'm not the only one.

 

[gelanz]

Not that it will speed things up

Scrolling manually through the tree is faster than PTC's
search engine on a 64 bit 8 gig ram box. That is my point.
I have video of a search that showed no results from a
search, then I scroll through the tree and find the part.
PTC seems to not care at all.

 

[Freecat]

gelanz, add this to your config.pro file. windows_scale 1
This will maximize your screen on start up.

Nice tip Volunteer, and I use this one too.Works great exceptfor the fact that this optiondoes not "maximize"any of your Pro/Ewindows, ever. Instead, it only creates a minimized window that is 100% of your available screen area.


Not quite there PTC but we're getting a little closer, huh...if only we could justditch that archaic code...hmmm.... that will probablybe the day that pigs really dofly.


I wonder if Creo will be a re-wright of ALL of the code for the Pro/E side and the CoCreate side to a common source? I am certainly interested to see the outcome of the direction they decide to take. That would be a huge undertaking for them.


CoCreate based ontheJava achitecture. Now that would be interesting indeed!

 

[Volunteer]

Richh, put this in you config.pro open_window_maximized yes
I am on Wilfire 4 and it works for me.

 

[Freecat]

Volunteer,


Thanks for the input, yes I have that in my config.pro already but it doesn't seem to work to maximize my Pro/E session. The window is big, yes, full screen.But itis stillnot "maximized" until I click the window control maximizebutton to actually maximize it. I am on a very early release of WF4 right nowI think M040. This might be new functionality that was added. Maybe a WF 5 user will comment. Thank you for your help.

 

[kdem]

Not that it will speed things up

Scrolling manually through the tree is faster than PTC's
search engine on a 64 bit 8 gig ram box. That is my point.
I have video of a search that showed no results from a
search, then I scroll through the tree and find the part.
PTC seems to not care at all.

And my point was try to reduce what you're lookingthrough and forand see if helps. I don't work with large assemblies on the magnitude you're talking about so I can't try it out and tell you what the results are. If you are just looking at finding components that aren't in session as you stated create a layer with a rule that collects components that were not retrieved when you opened the simplified rep. When you regenerate the assembly the layer should populate with components that are excluded. Does building a query with multiple rules help? If you're only interested in assemblies build a query that looks on the layer and only looks for assemblies.

 

[gelanz]

If you watch the video, look how long it took just to open
up the search dialog box, 9 minutes? I don't think layers
is a viable workaround. I prefer the software to work, not
have to resort to workarounds on something this basic.

 

[kdem]

I've noticed long opening times for the search dialog boxand understand what meanabout it taking a long time to open and you're right I dobt adding things to a layer will help with opening the dialog box but that's not howyour commentscame across in the wording of your posts. You made it sound as if the actual search took a lot of time but from the video it doesn't (from the time you hit the Find Now button to returned results wasn't long). The point of suggesting the layer was you said the search didn't return results for items that were not in session when you opened a simplified rep. Since you can't search for items that weren't retrieved when opening the simplified rep (at least in WF3 & WF4) with the search dialog, you can create a layer with a rule that collects those items. It might help in your search because you can set search criteria to look for a part by name and limit the search to the layer with those items. Instead of searching and comparing all 10,000 parts you limit the number of items to what's on the layer.
Edited by: kdem

 

[SW]

Rich,

Its no better in Wildfire 5.

While things like this are a pain, I think they are more of an embarrasement for PTC and an annoyance for users, rather than a serious functionallity problem.

Sam

 

[gelanz]

The search is inconsistent, sometimes the dialog box open
up immediately, then the search is 8 or 10 minutes. What
annoys me is half the time it returns nothing found even
though I can see the model in the tree. Hit search again
and eventually it finds it. I have played with this long
enough to know it is junk software. Anyone who accepts a
work around on this needs think why are we paying all
this maintenance? Now I have mentioned two of the 100 and
look at all the traffic. I have been using Proe since V18
and know most workarounds. My original post was I am disappointed in PTC for not fixing this pile of issues
before they go off on this direct modeling tangent.
Basically in large assemblies over 1000 parts Proe
literally self destructs. COCreate works fine with 40,000
parts so you can see where PTC is going with this Creo
thing.

 

[kdem]

The
search engine will not look for filenames directly that
are not in session.

It should, at least does it when I have used it. Do you select Not Retrieved on the options drop down?
Edited by: kdem

 

[Freecat]

As I see it, large assembly management is considered to be one of the "holy grails" of Pro/ENGINEER.I think this by-and-largeis PTC's bread and butter, and one of themain reasons why companies choose Pro/E over some oftheir competitors.Functionality so basic and fundamental as searchingshould have been fixedeons ago.


I have alsoexperiencedthe "nul search result" returnwhile searchingfor a model. The search returns nothing, but then after some digging in the treeon my own accordIfind the model to be there,safe and sound.


That is frustrating and a waste of time.

 

[kdem]

Something I did find that causes a null search result is looking fora part(s) in a subassembly of the main assembly that is excluded from a simplified rep and they are not in session (which I'm guessing is what you are refering to). One thing your video didn't show is what options you had selected on the Options tab. If it's like mine Not Retreived is not selected by default which will cause items not in session to not show in the list. If you expand the node of the excluded assembly and run the search again the part(s) you expected to see the first runshould probably show. For me by expanding the node to see what wasin the subassembly caused it to be added to the session which allowed it to be found as well as any parts included in it. If you do have it selected the subassemblies and part(s)that are excluded will show in the list with subassemblies being added to the session(this will extend to multiple layers, which you do have shown in your video).Without knowing how your working with the model I wonder if there are other reasons parts wouldn't show (such as regeneration status or others). I'm not saying search works the way I would expect just posting some observations of what I'm seeing.
Edited by: kdem

 

[hhrm]

I think PTC is tackling real problems:
- Parametric modelling is fantastic, but is and has always been to
difficult for most of the design work
- we all have to deal with several incompatible applications,
delivering incompatible files.

I'm not a Microsoft fan, but can you imagine a world with 4
equivalent but incompatible word processors, only interfaced by flat
ascii-texts? Or a similar situation regarding e-mail or webbrowsing?

You may be sure that the introduction will be accompanied by a lot of
issues and problems, it's made be human beings, and nobody is
perfect.
And you may be sure that PTC is making money out of it. But isn't
that the way the world functions?

At least, nobody can say that PTC isn't taking CAD seriously!