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Outsourcing overseas III

Are there still contractors out there? Who would want to work on these terms unless they absolutely had no other choice.

According to the most recent salary survey, 16% called themselves contractors. Are these just temp jobs?
 
It'll bite them in the ass when no-one can afford the vehicles anyway - those laid off and those in india on $5/hr
 
The unfortunate reality is that it's simple business. I doubt that many companies out there are deliberately trying to screw the American Worker. However, when they post a job listing for a small amount of money, they will hire who they get. Just like an employee will go for the high paying jobs, employers are looking for the least expensive employee.



Yes, there is always a value arguement. Are they as good as American Workers? Seems that in most cases, the answer is yes. Companies just can't compete by paying the high wages Americans demand. Right now, that translates into fewer American jobs. But we have always adapted. In the long run, the foreign work force will get paid more, or we will have to not work for as much.



I see the latter happening already. Just look through the job postings. 5 years ago, salaries for contract positions were much higher than they are now. We will have to learn to live on this, or watch people who already know how take the jobs. You can call it supply and demand, a version of darwinism, or the economists will call it business.



Sadly, we are faced with a choice. Either cry about it, and tell companies it's unfair to save money. OR, play the game, and learn to compete with the outsourced worker.
 
All thru history persons and cultures have lost jobs due to shifts or rifts in the economy. The economy is like an ocean and it has a tide too. During the industrial revolution people took up arms to keep their manual labor jobs as machines took over. It is not hard to imagine their anxiety. It just s*x that it is happing to us. We have to fight instead with our heads and train ourselves to work smarter and faster not just in use of Pro/SURFACE, ISDX, Pro/MECHANICA or Pro/PROGRAM. We have the ability to study the culture we immerse ourselves with and thus develop products for. The Chinese fail miserably at these kinds of tasks. They are a quick study but always fall short for the most successful products.



The IDSA midwest conference is titled 'Shift Happens' and references the migration to China as part of the topics for debate. I think we are planning a panel discussion to tear into the topic. I would encourage all the engineers on the form to consider attending this years IDSA Midwest Conference. I doubt there would be one who would regret the trip to Chicago in April. Plus the 'W' Hotel is simply killer.



Sadly, we are faced with a choice. Either cry about it, and tell companies it's unfair to save money. OR, play the game, and learn to compete with the outsourced worker. - Sidemout



I say we can do far better than play the game and compete. We can do far better than any other culture and always well.



BTW: I am speaking at the Nashville World Conference. http://www.ptcuser.org/2004/sessions.html#dmtrack and doing a surfacing intensive after the conference. http://www.ptcuser.org/2004/training_brejcha.html Since I am fairly new to this forum, it would be great to meet some of you folks!



Bart Brejcha http://www.proetools.com
 
Sidemout,



I don't mean to make this sound like a personal attack on you, but what you said is total crap. I can only assume that the mass migration of American manufacturing to China & India has not directly affected you.



It has directly affected me. My company is sending all of our products over to some shit hole in China to be manufactured. All because these 3'rd world pieces of shit make 6 cents a month.



In about two years, approximately 400 employees of my company will be out of a job. Yeah, call it economics or business or what ever bullshit term you like. 400 people out of work feels like the company is screwing us on purpose. Go and tell those 400 people that it is simple business.



My solution to all this is to put a HUGE tax on all products that come into this country from overseas manufacturing. That way the cost to make product overseas will be the same as making it here. You will of course have a higher quality product by making it in the USA.



Government interaction WILL take place. The manufacturing industry is what built this great country we live in. To think that we will adapt to some 3'rd world shit hole stealing that from us makes me sick.
 
This is a bit of joke, but then again maybe not...anyone know the best way to find a descent job in Europe? Hell, soon we may all be looking there, might as well get a head start
 
The manufacturing community we have was built here because of economics and business. It was not profitable for people to ship commercial goods around the world.



It's no different than anything else. If the system doesn't change, then it gets left behind. Design-engine has a good point. At some point, we will be better than the competition.



The world is getting smaller. To have a manufacturing unit on the other side of the globe is much easier, and at this time, cheaper.



If the answer is to add tariffs to imports, then how to deal with the other trading companies? The Steel Tariffs President Bush had initiated quickly got dropped because of pressure from the EU, and right now, they are adding more and more taxes on imports because of our tariffs.



Fact is, putting hard terms such as business and economics on such things as jobs moving out of the country is not generally accepted. When someones welfare is involved, no one wants to admit that it is only a result of our own capitalistic system.
 
GGGG;

I feel your pain and am definately on your side of this thread and your situation is very similar to millions of other Americans who are losing their jobs to cheap laboe and that fact that ignorant consumers want to shop at Wal-Mart for cheap products made in cheap countries by cheap people. Until that changes, there will not be a turn around and I foresee our economy stalling severely in the near future because of the ramifications. Currently what has been holding up the economy is the consumer confidence and continued spending, much of which is being done via credit cards and is putting the average consumer further into debt. Once this confidence erodes, companies will be back pedalling at a quick pace, there will be more layoffs and company closures will be at an all time high. I dont like to preach doom and gloom but without manufacturing of products in this great country, there will be nothing to hold up the services end of the economy. Heck, even those are now heading offshore at a high rate of speed. What Bart mentions is that we will adapt. My question is to what will we be adapting to? What most people are completely missing is that global economies can be a good thing if it is a two way street but our current situation is a one way flood of products into this country and jobs out of it which is a double wammy. The simple fact that we import a hugely dispraportionate amount of goods in comparison to what we are exporting, will cause a ripple effect through the economy once jobless rates hit a certain level and consumer confidence begins to fail, which it will because those out of work cannot afford to even shop at Wal/China-Mart. We are not dealing with fair trade issues here and our politicians continue to sell out our interests to appease large corporations. You hear the presidential candidates in this election year now finally talking about the issue but I can pretty much guarantee that it will be business as usual in Washington once the election is over. If only we could flush that giant toilet in Washington and rid ourselves of the self serving, double speaking, slick politicians and start fresh with honest, hard working Americans who are interested in the countries welfare instead of their own, we may have a shot at turning this around.

Bruce
 
England sent all their manufacturing out of their country by selling the companies completely. There is hardly any manufacturing in England now. Their cash cow is now designers and engineers. Other countries come to England for design and engineering in a big way. There is no manufacturing and there are no manufactures. Unless you count Triumph or BA? It has been all sold off. It seams to me they (England) should be in ruins but they are not. It is because they are innovative. They are just 10 years ahead of us. Hell the girls are cute in China I should go there and train, it would probably pay more. I am moving. Count me an x-patriot then.



Just joken really. It is so easy to rib this forum up. I like to get such a response from people.



The situation s*x really. I do try to poke some gesture to an alternate way to look at things. It really has affected me and our companies in a great way. I am not sure there is an easy answer.



Bart Brejcha http://www.proetools.com
 
design-engine,



The population of England is also MUCH smaller than here in the USA.



A union member who works on an assembly line will kick you in the balls when you tell him he has to become a designer or engineer because his job is being replace by Long Duc Dong in China because Dong make 68 cents in a year. This assembly line working, union card carrying member is still an American, who in my opion matters more than Long Duc Dong and should not be put into such a shitty position because of business or economics.



Government of the people, by the people, for the people? MY ASS. It is not the people of China we should be concerned with. The people that count are the Americans.
 
design-engine,



I'm from BRITAIN and what you're saying is complete and utter bollocks.



There's been a Brain-Drain from UK to US for the last 40 years because of the decrepit state of Engineering, Manufacturing and Research in the UK.



Engineering a cash cow ???? Get real !!!!



Which companies did BRITAIN sell off ????



BRITAIN IS IN RUINS, been that way since 1940, living off North Sea Oil for the last 20-25 years.



You come across as a pompous, ignorant wind-bag and know-all !!!!
 
dougr, RIGHT ON!!



All these people spouting about economics and business have spent too much time with their noses in books. Welcome to the real world. This so called economics & business is destroying millions of Americans lives. (And from what you say, British lives) That is a business that should be damned.



The God Damn US government had better do something NOW, or else no one will have any money to pay their taxes.
 
10g, I know we're all disgusted with jobs leaving America and I don't know the answer but I do know that the government is not the answer, unless we can get them to lower taxes and learn to live on less so big business won't leave.



BTW, has anybody asked their PTC salesperson if we're going to get some kind of break on maintenance because now they're moving to India and PTC is making big savings in this area.



my 2cents



Steve C
 
swcalvert,



I believe the US Government is indeed the answer. Taxes & tariffs could straighten this out. Essentially, companies that send their products overseas to be produced must be punished by ridiculous taxes & tarrifs.





As far as PTC sending tech support to India, I'M GOING TO VOMIT. I thought this was what has happened. How did you find this out?



Whenever I log a call via the web for tech support, I include a line in my email that stipulates I don't want anyone calling back with a heavy accent. I am not a racist or anything nasty like that, I just can't understand these foreigners. I'm not going to let them give me sub-standard tech support for the same cost. So I demand that an English speaking tech support engineer call me back.
 
I just switched from Rand maintenance to PTC and our support has never been better. Plus our maintenance costs keep going down - I mean less now than they were 5 years ago, lesser than they were 10 years ago, and far less than they were 15 years ago. So get the barf bag out 10g, because those higher taxes, tariffs and fees would get passed right on to us.
 
mgnt8,



I think you missed my point.



I agree, that taxing businesses for going overseas will be passed on to the consumer, but the jobs will also be brought back into this country. I am not an economist, but I am an American, and I think this situation is plain SHITTY. I am only suggesting ways to improve it.



As far as the barf bag goes, it is already pulled out and over flowing. I am VERY PISSED OFF at PTC for sending tech support to India. (that is why I'm puking)



So far, the worst situation I've run across is this: I described my problem in detail in my initial email to tech support. When some cat called me back (who I couldn't understand) he had apparently never read my email, as he asked me to completely describe the problem to him. After about a week, he got back to me with a solution. Only problem was, the solution required the use of Behavioral Modeling, which I don't have. I told him in the email & ON THE PHONE that I didn't have Behavioral Modeling, but his solution required it anyway. After I told him a 3'rd time I don't have Behavioral Modeling, he got back to me after about another week, and this time told me what I wanted to do could not be done. NO SOLUTION.



My confidence in the foreign tech support is zero.
 
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