Pro-E / PTC sucks

[arroyopr]

Is not what your country can do for you, is what can youdo for your country.

Or something like that.I mean isn't what the software can do for you, is what can you do with the software. That's were something call experience kicks in. Thatwill get you the big bucks, that and a little diploma would help. I got toadmit that if you have exp. with severals packages will increase your value on the market But not because thesoftware the company uses. Yes there're companies that pay very well, I think it's becuase there anual revenue are on the 100's of mill.$. And with that kind of money of course i'll get me the best there is and pay them good$. Don't forget that you have to earn every penny of it.

 

[networkned]

Based on some of the original comments, I agree with some parts. I've been using Pro/E and dealing with PTC and it's resellers for nearly 10 years now.


The service and support you will get from PTC sucks. Once they've got your money they don't really give a damn.


What you need to do is get in touch with a decent reseller. Here in the UK I've been dealing with Concurrent Engineering http://www.concurrent-engineering.co.uk for the last 4 years or so and I can't fault them. Lee and the sales team help with everything you could possbly want and aren't banging the door down every 5 minutes to try and sell you something, and Dave and the guys on the help desk know just about everything there is to know about the software.


In terms of the software, I've also been using Catia V5 for the last 3 years or so, and if you want a pig awkward piece of software that talks to nothing and generates huge interface files, then Catia is for you. If you're a half decent engineer and understand how things are made, stick with Pro/E. Anything else is frankly second rate and only comparable to an etch-a-sketchin terms ofvalue for money, functionality and compatability with other systems.

 

[design-engine]

Hey Powerpoint is good too. You can't mention
etch-o-sketch and not mention powerpoint! Come On everyone! Every time I go to a Pro/E user
conference many of my co-speakers are using powerpoint instead of Pro/E. That sux.

<div style="text-align: center;">
</div>

 

[tazbaby]

And whats wrong with etch-a-sketch ?? The way my Proe isplaying up at the minute i think it would be an improvement !!


LOL.. i'd have to agree with Bart too... Ive never been to a conference yet and seen anyone actually use Proe !! Maybe they should try etcher too !!


As for the support... I actually think its getting worse.. logged an issue with running 2001 on the new WF3 license server.. Ooo nrly a month ago now.. still not heard anything !!


Taz

 

[networkned]

tazbaby, you sooooo need to give Lee @ Concurrent a ring..... If I log a call with their guys I'm usually lucky if I get time to make a brew before I get a call back..... They set up my machine to run the WF3 license and I got v.20 running on it no problems: some ofourcustomers were so backwards!


Never been to a user conference as they always seem to be on the wrong side of the pond for me. Hey ho maybe someday. Am I missing anything? Or is that a new thread thing?
Edited by: networkned

 

[mch]

networkned:


Don't forget that there's the PTC/User Conference in Birmingham (UK) this November. Hope to see you there. Glad you're pleased with Lee & Co. at Concurrent. If you need more help, give us a try.
Cheers,


Rod
--
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast

 

[tazbaby]

Bringing my lill boys etch-a-sketch to work still sounds tempting !! although printing may be a problem !!


When in november Rod, Ive tried to find the dates online but cant see anything... Will look forward to all those powerpoints !! yay.. ( not ).. But no doubt ill be sent.. LOL.. might get the answer to my logged call with ptc if i go.. few months late...

 

[design-engine]

I spoke at that Birmingham (UK) England Conference in 2002 and did not
see one powerpoint presentatation! It did rain the entire month
that I was there though.

 

[michaelpaul]

Well, I was just thinking about companies that only have solidworks and the reason that they do is to cut costs (last time I checked they were the same, not sure of the argument.) anyway, companies that use cheaper CAD packages - wouldn't they tend to have lower wage rates? I'm think of smaller companies out in the middle of no where.

Two of the last three companies I have worked for swtiched from Pro to SW. Pay stayed the same but the learning curve and ability to get people in who knew SW was easier. quality of the modeling and time to market did not change.

Michael

 

[michaelpaul]

Mr Addict, maybe it's because it's friday that I don't see clear but it seems perfectly logical to me that if you delete a cut you can no longer fillet the surfaces that were created by this cut.


Or am I missing something ?


Alex

take this example though.....you have a recatngular tube wtih each of the four ednges having a fillet on them. you decide you want a triangular cross setion. You redefine teh sketch in Pro and your fillet instantly fails and you enter failure/resolve he!!. it's easy to fix but you still have to go into the feature, edit the references and manually delete the edge that no longer exists from the reference set.

In SW, you regenerate your triangular section and you get a message that says the round feature is missing an edge, but What? The software actually is smart enough to figure out that the edge is gone and it's only telling you that an edge disappeared while still recreating the round properly? What a concept.

Michael

 

[jbuckl]

Network Ned.....


Great to hear your low opinion of catia..... But they have got good salesmen....I cant understand why catia is so widely used otherwise but they are not the only ones to foist poor systems.


Maybe in terms of 3d to manufacture (orig thread)the finer points of pro-e are not so evident, but in terms of accurate design its still light years ahead.


Saddest thing recently is the slowing up of the user interface in modelling and detailling picking/selection. Philosophy changes are one thing, but the bugs are unacceptable (we keep getting a dragging window when we have correctly selected a draft item to move...fixed when (if) we move up a cut or two)


Pre highlighting is also a flawed change because its only tested with small models and really slows you up with big assemblies....I know you can switch it off but you need it to 'query select'...perhaps if old query select was activated when prehighlighting was switched off it would improve...but PTC dont really care about true enhancement do they.(orig thread)


But overall, even PTC havent mangaged to reduce the shine of Pro-E to the level of its (poor) substitutes yet!


Cheers

 

[phoxeoy]

I remember when WF1 came out. The big buzz was that PTC took all the advise from the USER and redesigned ProE to better fit.

I still laugh at that today.


If this truely happened to the level at which they say, I'm sure ProE would be a totally different animal today.

 

[conrat]

I know no one who thinks the pre Wildfire interface is better than the
Wildfire interface. There are some quirks with the
prehighlighting and such, but overall I love the new interface.
Half as many clicks and I can see what I am doing. Menus and
right clicks are more intuitive. Even the
panning/zooming/spinning is easier. It is hard to use ProE2001
now.



Jim

 

[phoxeoy]

Two of the last three companies I have worked for swtiched from Pro to SW. Pay stayed the same but the learning curve and ability to get people in who knew SW was easier. quality of the modeling and time to market did not change.

Michael

Maybe due to other factors, a lot of companies today require Engineers to do there own models. The days of having Engineers and draftsmen are thining. In this case, I'm sure that pay would not change but in companies that do not do Engineering just model an detail, might be a different story. It just seems logical that if the software becomes easier and easier to use then companies could hire less experence people for less that can do the job. Over time this could lower wage rates for this field. I'm not saying it is or it will, I'm just thinking outloud here.

 

[phoxeoy]

Conrat,


I'm not really talking about clicks and picks, I'm more talking about what goes on behind the scenes. Changing how I put a hole in is not important to me, what is important is if I have a model with 1200 features and that last feature keeps closing ProE down with no warnings. Or better yet, when ProE goes into resolve mode, it's smart enough to tell me in plain english whats wrong.

 

[dsilorey]

I agree with phoxey in regards to "The days of having Engineers and draftsmen are thining." At our company we use to have drafters, designers, engineers and checkers. This has greatly changed over the last 5 or 6 years. We now have designers and engineers. As a designer you do the engineering, design, drafting and the checking. We do not have many degreed engineers that use Pro/E. The point of Pro/e getting easier is true but the complexity of the parts have also gotten harder. I think you can teach a lot more people to use the software but they will never be good designers. Case in point, we hired a surface guy many years ago with the thought that he could learn to be a designer. ha. He seems to be very good at the surfacing but that is about it. Anyway, just thought I would add my two cents.

 

[conrat]

phoxeoy,



Yes, but old Pro/E was buggy also. I often wonder why Pro only
lists feature ids or #s on resolve. Why not show the damn feature
name that you renamed it to? This would make tracking down
problems much easier. Instead, you need to set up model tree
columns or use the search tool to find the darn feature.



Also, I have found sometimes when regenerating a model, Pro creates a
new part (prt0001.prt) and then crashes with no warning. Looking
thru the trail file doesn't help much, and those darn exception codes
in the std.out files are useless. Opening the part Pro created
also crashes the program, so there is really no way of figuring out
what is causing the problem without trial and error.



In fact, a lot of things cause Pro to just shut down with no
warning. In 2001, if I tried to copy a note in a drawing, pro
would crash. Tech support was no help. Once they found out
that the computer was not a Dell or HP, they wouldn't help me because
my system was not a supported one. I doubt they would have had an
answer had it been a Dell workstation either.



All in all, I love WF3. I have only had a few bugs turn up, and
even though PTC says we aren't big enough to fix the problems (see my
previous post), I can work around them. But these darn bugs
should be addressed. Everyone complains about Micro$oft letting
end users be beta guinea pigs, PTC should be held to the same
standard. When one is paying $5,000+ per seat, just for basic
functionality, they desreve to have their issues resolved, even if they
aren't a big name player.



Okay, I will get off this soap box. It feels good to vent.



Jim

 

[phoxeoy]

I went back on my past posts here and I just can't find anywhere that I've mentioned anything about pre WF was better. Sorry for the confusion Conrat. I merely was trying to say that change is good, particularly when 2001 and past are involved, but what was changed might have been a different story had the User really been invloved. The resolve issue has been an issue for as long as I can remember and no body said anything to PTC about it when they asked? Give me a break. What puzzles me is ProE is smart enough to complain but stupid enough to not tell you what it's complaining about. I just don't get it.


ProE is like someone handing you a nuclear reactor with no manual. When something goes wrong,your screwed.

 

[conrat]

phoxeoy,



I confused you. My original post of today was in response to jbuckl, but responded to yours on my second post of the day.



I love the nuke analogy. So true... At least on old
releases, you got a printed manual that you could dog ear and
bookmark. The new online help sucks. I still use release 20
manuals when I need them, even though a lot has changed.
Especially for the relations / program stuff.



I don't know that other 3D apps offer the ability to do easy
programming like Pro/Program offers. Thsi is one of the main
reasons we use it here. I know others offer VB and C++ access,
but I am only a part time programmer and Pro/Program with a little Java
thrown in works fairly well and is fairly easy to accomplish my goals.



In retrospect, this may be the only reason I like the software...but maybe I am being too hard on PTC.



Jim

 

[jbuckl]

"The resolve issue has been an issue for as long as I can remember and no body said anything to PTC about it when they asked? Give me a break. What puzzles me is ProE is smart enough to complain but stupid enough to not tell you what it's complaining about. I just don't get it.


ProE is like someone handing you a nuclear reactor with no manual. When something goes wrong,your screwed. "


Phoxeoy,


I think you're opinion might be a bit harsh on the resolve / failure diagnostics quite a few old Cad systems(Pro-e is old)failure to resolve result in having to undo what you just tried or even go back to an earlier version and try something else.


eg catia (espV4) sdrc


Pro-E didnt used to have very explicit resolve messages or even a model tree, but backup model was the way to go then, and still is now, especially when you are working on models that are a bit old/messy/not your work. This scenario give a 'white knuckle ride' unless you rely on the backup-model to retain the maximum no of pre-modification work.


Pro-e doesnt really suck: PTC often do.


ATB Jbuckl