Some surfaces behaviour makes me confused

[Jacoolo]

any idea?

 

[Jacoolo]

still nothing?

c`mon guys, I can not belive it! no hint, trick to solve this?

I created additional curve to provide better control.

So I used it as influence curve, but is not 100% accurate

View attachment 4425

and next boundary blend surface is not going to pass tangent condition

View attachment 4426

so finaly I ended with something that looks like what I wanted to achieve.

But this required some crazy cruves with curvature transition between quilts

and in the end I am not happy with it

View attachment 4427

here strange transition can be seen

View attachment 4428

do not let me feel "muadib" was left with this problem for his own

 

[dgs]

This is a fairly challenging type of surface to create.


Below is an attached PDF that I received from the PTC guy that oversees ISDX on a very similar problem. The techniques refer to ISDX not standard surfacing, but they still may help.


The overbuilding techniques in options 2 & 3 work pretty well. If doing this outside of ISDX, you'll need to define and project the curves for the second surface onto the first, but it should be possible. Option 1 is ISDX related and won't apply to your situation.


I hope that helps.


2007-11-14_095425_5-sided-surf.zip

 

[Jacoolo]

thanks dgs

I will take a look on it

still I have not enough time I would to have to deal with this kind of examples(the lever)

 

[design-engine]

build a four part boundary and trim it back to look like a three part boundary. Then add a final four part boundary to complete the '5 a gon'

I even manage to get the light to reflect as if a rasp
was sanding the material parametrically.


Understanding this n-agon type of surfacing function... makes you very close to expert status. That is if you understand the subliminal light reflections that
occur on purpose and have some experience working with industrial designers.

That model looks very similar to a semens hand set I did years ago.

Siemens hand set n-agon example w/o using the
silly n-agon function in Pro/E.




Edited by: design-engine

 

[Jacoolo]

hello Bart, thanks for tips

I gonna try to follow them

The hand set looks similar in did, but there are some major differences, specialy in the "handle" part of lever. However the "head" looks just like mine. I am surprised I started with the same conditions which can be seen in your model.

It push me to think that no metter the place is, people seem to be thinking in the same manner.

The lever itself is a part of valve I met in my previous job. I just
was looking for small surfacing chalange, and I remind myself about it.
Then, we made with VSS, but it lacked those smooth transitions.

I still did not try dgs tip.

However I want to share the attempts I did not show before, because they look silly to me))

So, in general, I set following conditions: the second curve is related with the first one by the point placen on it

View attachment 4431

but with these conditions, as said in previous post, the surfaces did not match - meet each other

View attachment 4432

View attachment 4433

so then, I tried to built second curve in another manner, to fix it with first surface by intersection curve

View attachment 4434

but this approach is not good, since intersection curve has sh*ty curvature, and in general does not fit design conditions

so in the end I finish with many crazy approaches like this one below, which is special surface for bottom surface tangency transition to follow

View attachment 4435

I tried to bite it by my own, and I goona to do this still, but I also curious of your approaches

ok that is all folks

 

[Jacoolo]

I found some time, I suppose less then half an hour today Burt to play around the case from your first pic. I haven`t reached that point unfotunately. I stucked by smaller fillet.

However I can not say I gave up, I made something

View attachment 4439

the transition is well seen, I can not hide it until boundary curve are only tangent, without curvature. However curves with G2 required some( I think so) more twaeking and I do not have a time today to handle this.

View attachment 4440

I tried also to fill missing patch - all small curves are seen there - but without luck.

I tried also in another way, still far from desired shape

View attachment 4441

uff....time to go home

 

[design-engine]

[url]http://www.proetools.com/tutor/private/wf20/isdx/creditcardm achine.htm[/url]

login: student
pass: sushiwabi < our favorite sushi restaurant across the street from our chicago office.

Here you have the set up files and 4 or 5 solutions.


Edited by: design-engine

 

[Jacoolo]

uff...,at last, I am there

I did it. Or maybe I am so close I am almost there.

And so far Bart, I have not used your mateirlas from link you put in previous post. That is another reason for me to be happy, `cause I handled it by my own)))

What is the point? Take a look below

View attachment 4444

View attachment 4445


View attachment 4446

these are curves I used to achieve want I wanted. It wasn`t easy

View attachment 4447

no I can login to your page Bart, and take a look how is done right)

 

[Jacoolo]

ok, I took a look Bart on your way to do this - well one thing is for me still not clear

View attachment 4461

is this arc curve made as in picture above. I had tried this way before I saw yours, and for me this couldn`t work. Curve looked too crazy - horrible curvature

ok, the lever design. I spent spent some time investigating modeling technique from pic of head set you attached in your post. Well, this is tricky, with those curves - in my humble opinion - it would be hard to achieve that. One of them must be done after design, or play auxiliary role.

I chose another approach, however I haven`t still reached that point

View attachment 4462

it is almost as it should be - almost(

here comes artifacts )

View attachment 4463

these are patches I`vw ended with

View attachment 4464

these are my start conditions

View attachment 4465

next step

View attachment 4466

and final result with all curves

View attachment 4467

I think appraoch is almost correct. I lmost because I could not avoid 3 sided boundary blend in the bottom as seen in picture above. And some transitions lack curvature conections

any idea

 

[muadib3d_2]

ok, this is same muadib 3d, but .... yeah, I run new account since my original one crushed. I change my e-mail in setting page. I think I put wrong one. Since this, I am prompted to activate my account once again by receiving activation e-mail. No e-mail came, and it could be because of wrong e-mai I set in my settings.
However I can not change this address because I have not activated my account

I send some e-mails by Bug Report, and direct to admin on [email protected]. No result though

ok, back to the subject

I tried dgs tips. They work indeed, but they produce limited result.

I spent some additional time playing around my curves and those ones seen on Bart`s head set. More time I spend on this, more confused and tired I am.

So basicaly I gonna stop diging this thema and take some to recharge myself.

To this point I ended with following results.

View attachment 4475

View attachment 4476

View attachment 4477

 

[muadib3d_2]

However all boundries are done with tangent transitions(curvature is not able to achieve) what is well seen

View attachment 4478

this time I started with another approach

View attachment 4479

View attachment 4480

View attachment 4481

View attachment 4482

 

[muadib3d_2]

ok, this not fullfill all posibilities, since one really obvious trick is this one shown below

View attachment 4483

but... since it is easy to obtain patch no 1 and no 2, it is problem to obtain patch no 3. Left edge is base for two surf with different curvarures. this provides problems with such a boundary.

Conclusion - such situation should be avoided or additional curve created. The second idea is good and obvious, however difficult for me to do. The curves I`ve attempted to make had such strange look(curvature plot on the left side, normal to surface on the right side), that I cancel this approach.

Another problem I met is about bottom surface. This surface is second base for whole geometry I suppose. First I made it by 4 nd b, blend and then trimed it.

View attachment 4484

then I tried to make final surface with all necessary transitions. Since this was not problem, general look of surface is not desired.

View attachment 4485

in the end, to summarise this topic, I want to say I tried to come with good result with minimum curves to avoid great number of patches/quilts.

Anyhow, this task could wait for better days. I ma curoius if you can recommend any book for design in general - I suppose it could be not related to Pro\e at all, since I saw some intresting books for alias in amazon)?

 

[Jacoolo]

lever design is closed - I turn off my attention to this case. I finished this with ordinary approach.



it seems I chased myself to blind corner before. I just tried unnecessary too complicate way.

 

[Jacoolo]

after lever design I decided to refresh myself with some easy, simple but also eye candy surface modeling. So I made a little break to take a breath and repeat all these things I learned - there aren`t many though

here is my master model



as usually I am very curious of your ideas how to deal with such shape, here is my way



unfortunately the design isn`t mine. I wish I had so nice ideas

design comes from guy named khalid which is a member of Product Design forum, here are more details considering his design

http://www.productdesignforums.com/index.php?showtopic=6991

and here is his orginal rendering

 

[[-Skint-]]

Thats quite a funky toaster, i prefer 4 slices though

Good work maudib, i love reading your breakdowns.. makes me realise im not the only one who has surfacing troubles

 

[Jacoolo]

THX Skint,

I want to push the envelope of my skills higher and higher. This forum seems to be good place to make it easier, to gather the tips from much more experienced guys than I am.

This topic from beggining was considered as one big, long tutorial. The basics are - show a problem, show a my own solution, ask if they exist another ones? I want to follow with this basis still. I think among really obvious stuff talked here can one find really intresting tips. I hope it gonna be more like them

This I want to do still.

Next in qeue is mixer and kettle, specialy I am interested in thoese soft transitions between handle and th rest of housing

this is whole kitchen appliance made by khalid. Guy make it really nice, doesn`t he?

 

[[-Skint-]]

He did yeah, I took a quite peak at the website you provided. Some interesting products on that forum. Are you a member there or just browsing it etc ? I have added it to my favourites, I feel recently that my design motivation is lacking slightly, maybe its a source of inspiration


I am hoping to get a lot more time in the new year to play around with pro-e. I am also attending a surfacing course in Febuary

, costs quite a lot here in the UK though !!!

 

[Jacoolo]

I wish I would attend too. I was once at so called course. In details it was crappy and I learned almost nothing. Based on books from ptc, and fixed on it, it just could not be done right. In the end I assume it wasn`t woth that money. Luckly they wwasn`t mine, my firm paid them, so in the end it was just time wasting from my side.

Yes, I am a member of this forum, however I am not designer at all. I just seeked an inspirtation with Pro\E to follow. This forum is full of such examples. that is good. I have things to do for some time, I will have it free))

Each time I try to face guy responsible for design first. Ask him some question, than I ask if I would share my pics and his pics on this forum. Till this time, all agreed with this.

 

[Jacoolo]

oh, I`ve almost forgot - this is Khalid portfolio

http://www.coroflot.com/janstrnadel

I`ve promised to pick it here