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Speling - After reading your post I've concluded that you mustwrite the help manuals for PTC.
You both speak the same poorly written English language that does nothing but cause confusion for the reader.
With regards to your Microsoft post, MS Office products, such as Excel and PowerPoint, have had many features and improvements added to them over the years. Many of these improvements don't exist in previous versions. Yet, Microsoft has backwards compatibility. So your arguement has no merit.
PTC's software is indeed complex, however, I firmly believe that they choose to maintain higher profit margins instead of maintaining backwards compatibility. I don't blame them, as it is afterall a more lucrative way to run a buisness. With that said, take a look at the market share Microsoft has versus the market share PTC has. Microsoft dominates, and I'd bet that backwards compatibility has something to do with it. PTC has a fraction of the market, and to be honest with you, I think PTC may be on a downward spiral with the competition giving them a real fun for their money.
It is obvious that English is not the first Spelling's language (Neither is mine).Since you are laughing at him you probably speak at least three other languages beside your mother tongue.
As for Micrsoft, you are not serious when comparing PP with Proe
And at the end I am sure thet an altruist such as you are work for free and therefore cannot comprehend that PTC is after profit.Indeed such an thing unheard of.
pedja666 - I'll poke fun at any PTC employee to his face if they try to tell me that their help manuals are well written. They are quite poorly written, and it's obvious why. Keep in mind, I'm only poking fun at the situation, and it's nothing more than that. And, FWIW, I speak one other language besides my native.
With regards to working for free and not comprehending the idea of profit - read my earlier post on this thread. I state clearly that the sole reason for lack of backwards compatibility is to maintain/increase profit margins. Read all of the posts within a thread before acusing me of something.
Sure, comparing a Microsoft product to a Pro-E product may be like comparing an apple to an orange. But think about it guys, it's all software, all written code. Take a good look at some of Microsoft's products and how they've developed over the last decade or two. Excel, for example, has lots of new features and code added to it that Office 95 versions never had. I'm not talking about stupid fonts or formatting, I'm talking about visual basic code behind the program, the spreadsheet's powerful capabilities and such. Microsoft has been down the same product development process as PTC, and they have choosen to maintain backwards compatibility. Granted, I'm sure their profit margins are higher than PTC's, so maybe they can afford to ensure backwards compatibilty and consider it a worthwhile trade-off.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of or support Microsoft. I wish there were more large software companies out there that would give Microsoft a run for their money and create a competitive environment that would demand improvements out of their software - such as the competition we have here with Pro/E, Solidworks, Inventor, etc.
ScottAW<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
First I wasn't speaking about making fun of PTC employees unless you consider Spelling to be one.
Regarding profits, in such a competitive saturated environment such as MCAD is today maintenance fees are not about increasing profit margins but about survival. If therewas significant drop in number of maintenance contracts (which would necessarily happen with backwards compatibility) PTC would just go out of business. It is very easy for Microsoft to have their softwares backwards compatible when all completion has been strangled sometimes when Jack Ripper was operating on <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">London</st1lace></st1:City>'s streets.
And thirdly despite Visual Basic ProE as a programming code is significantly more complex than any Microsoft product and they just cannot be compared
Firstly let me say that dumping on people for their point of view is not a good way to promote objective dialogue. I have read with interest all of the postings here about this backwards compatability topic and see that nothing has changed over the last 10 or 12 years or so.
I would like to hear from someone at PTC (or any of the other MCAD people) on their respective positions with regard to bacwards compatability because (correct me if i'm wrong) none of the so called "high end" cad developers do this.
Finally, Microsoft has an infinately bigger customer base and a far more diverse range of products that appeal to that same customer base so, from that pespective we really are comparing apples and oranges.
-First one to note: "datum on fly" is there again.No groups any more and it has been even further enhanced by allowing it to be used outside of the feature as the reference for other features.Also you can keep datum if you want itwhen deleting feature.
-There are some very useful pattern enhancements like the possibility of patterning , mirroring of a existing pattern;possibility of exclusion of instances from reference pattern and possibility of conversion direction and axis pattern to table pattern
If PTC wants to put all there eggs in there maintenance fees then no wonder their going down hill with profits. I am in R&D working with companies that develop software that is embedded in Pro/E. Sometimes we have a lot of questions, so we call PTC support for answers. Answers are far from what I get. What I get is someone who does not speak english very well, I can't understand what he/she is telling me. Most of the time the answers they give is so basic that it doesn't even come close to touching the real problem. The point is they don't understand me and I don't understand them so again, can somebody tell me whywepay PTC's over priced maintenance agreements!?!? PTC took 2001 and totaly and complete changed everything about it and called it Wildfire. Now they need do the same with managment and call itCommon sense.
Agree- the tech. support sucks as their as a huge language barrier that prevents actual tech. support work from getting done. Very annoying. Funny how Dell used to have their tech. support in India, but moved it back after a huge percentage of their buisness clients complained. Sure, they save money, but at a huge expense.
Also, I have watched PTC take the original "Pro/E" and transition from version to version, and I think they reached their plateau with Pro/E 2001. After so many versions, they had worked out the majority of all the bugs and issues, and that platform in my opinion was the best one out there and still is. Then, they came out with Wildfire to compete with Solidworks, as Solidworks was taking away too much profit margin. Big mistake, as this completely revamped the old school Pro/E way of doing things and they tried to make it user-friendly as Solidworks is. So they have now essentially started from scratch and have several more years of once again fine-tuning their product to work out all the bugs and issues.
I hate to disagree but PTC is profitable and has been for the last year. Their misfortune in years past was apparently simply due to a cyclical downturn in the sector. The introduction of Wildfire has coincided with a return to profitability and growth, so, bymost acounts, its been considered a great success.
As for foreigners answering the phones, its time some of us realize that Americans only make up about 5% of the population of this earth. There's innovation, expertise, & talent all over the place and its not simply the domain of the US anymore.While we whine aboutwhy everyone can't talk or look like us, the rest of the world is working together & passing us by.
I speak to PTC tech support all the time and I don't have a problem talking to anybody. Lack of patience on the callers' end seems to be the biggest problem whether they're answering in Topeka of Timbukto.
hey, if we only make up about 5% of the population then I guess it wouldn't be to hard or costly to have a english speaking, non answer be number person to answer the phone when a english speaking person is calling! Time is money PAL, and if I sit on the other end of a phone for 30 minutes to an hour just trying to explain myself, I call that poor service. If you went to BurgerKing and ordered a Hamburger and got a chicken sandwich I bet you would take it back no matter who took your order; English, German or India speaking! It's poor service plain and simply. I live in America and I speak English. I pay for a Maintenance Agreement which includes phone technical support, When I call I should get somebody that can communicate. I just don't get that without a lot of extra work. Don't make it sound like I'm or anybody else is downing someone or somewhere just because it comes from an American. It's about paid services and the level expected and the level recieved.
One thing that I have found to work out well is to log my calls initially online through their website tech. support. I can then clearly write down what my problem is and also attach screen shots to further clarify it.
This then allows the tech. support group to read and understand my problem, and avoids all the miscommunications involved in opening up a call on the phone. Plus, when they call me back, they have the answer for me already, and I just have to catch about 1/2 of what they are saying and I usually figure out the problem by then.
good advice. Reading what you written just strengthens what I was saying to mgnt8. Having to do all that just to get something across is just to time consuming. Really, If I got on the phone with you ScottAW and started explaining my problem and ifyou experienced the same thingalready,you thencould tell me what to do rather quickly. You can't setup shop, train a ton of people for a couple of weeks, give then 2.00 andayand call themexperts.
I get up in the morning with the alarm going off (made in Mexico). I put my clothing on (made in singapor),watch (made in China) and head out the door. Get in my car (made in Germany) and drive to work (owned by Japan). Turn the computer on (made in Hong Kong) and pick up the phone (made in Hong Kong) and dial a American Number and speak to a tech support person (who speaks Areobic). Is there something wrong here or is it just me?
I understand your point - but I have rarely ever talked to a support person who really used the software. They are trained to look through the knowledgebase and manuals, because 80% of the calls they get are from people who don't know how to RTFM. American, Bangladeshi, Egpytian, Canadian - support hotline workers are not programmers, and they are not users. The only they do have that you don't is the secret list of all the bugs in the software...
As you correctly said, ScottAW might be able to answer your question right off the bat. You can be damned sure he's not getting paid $25,000 a year to answer your phone call like the kid who USED to sit somewhere in the US answering support calls.
That said, yes, it's just you...
Besides, I wouldn't complain if I got to drive a German car (unless of course, its a VW you refer to)... I have yet to work fora foreign owned company - that's gotta be a PIA at times.
I hear you Phoxeoy, not much to be done about it though I'm afraid. More importantly, do you have an Audi or BMW per chance? Used to own an A4 here, loved it. Love most German stuff, great quality.
Now, the Mexico, China, and Hong Kong stuff.... I steer away from.
I'm just thankful that certain companies still maintain keeping real experts on their tech. support lines - like SKF Bearings for example. You call them, you get an *engineer* that has years of experience and knows what he/she is talking about. That can't be beat!!!!!
That's the whole reason I use SKF by default - their web site is great and they do have knowledgeable people on the phone. Which is good, because the guys at Applied Industrial don't seem to know jack about bearings... Edited by: scottm
I think a lot of you people forgot about Rand when they did tech support. They could awnser you question half of the time and their responce time was not as good as it is now. I lnow if you called tech support like I did with Rand, sometimes you would get that "oh not him" person. Other times it was "yes" this is one of the guys that knows pro e? As far as where things you use everyday come from, how much has that changed in the last 10 years or more? I think some of you people would bitch if they hung you with a new rope.
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