Is Proe "old-timer"?

[michael3130]

Skint,


I spent 2 weeks in China before and did try dog amongst other things. My stomach wasn't the same again for months so decided to play it safe this time.


I was hoping to get to Stanley Bay and Disneyland but time was against me.


Our tooling guys are out in China every 6 weeks and they say they are happiest when they 'can pass wind with confidence'.

 

[solidworm]

Bart,
Thnaks for your response.

jeff,
i briefly looked into ACIS R16 documentation. it has a fill functionality called: "advanced covering" with these features: <ul style="list-style-image: none;">[*]Nonplanar, n-sided boundaries (must be plane-projectable)[*]Position (G0) and tangent (G1) continuity with adjacent
surfaces[*]Boundary continuity can be individually specified
on each edge[*]Auxiliary point and curve constraints (G0 only)[/list]as you can see, it doesn't support G2. i don't think parasolid provides the fill functionality in solidworks either. i've read on solidworks blogs that it's from catia's kernel. ( Sure it's true. I saw it on the internet

) but catia's fill feature unlike solidworks , only accepts a single point as constraint.

i can see ACIS provides functionalities i've never seen in any cad system. take a look:
http://i37.tinypic.com/1247odl.jpg

and hey! the VSS+trajpar releations clone is here:

http://i34.tinypic.com/qqbplw.jpg

Edited by: solidworm

 

[[-Skint-]]

Our tooling guys are out in China every 6 weeks and they say they are happiest when they 'can pass wind with confidence'.

Yes thier way of life is quite different isnt it. I remember the first time I was sat in a restaurant in the Shantou area, an expensive restaurant for china I must add... happily eating whatever was placed in front of me until the chinese gentleman sat next to me started farting as loud as possible, once he had finished doing that he thenproceeded to err...clear his nose and thoat... all over the floor !

Lets not discuss toilet habits lol

 

[klemen]

No komment!

Best regard
Klemen

2008-12-13_045148_no_komment.rar

 

[solidworm]

Thanks klemen!
i wasn't trying to say that proe lacks those features. i was wondering why they aren't implemented in many cad apps that use ACIS.
by the way you had to make that vase with trajpar to precisely duplicate the image i posted.and that block is deformed by an equation.
that pipe should have been built with trajpar also! the radius changes like a sine wave.
hmm, the weather is 2 degrees warmer here. it's now 5 deg(Celsius) and not raining.
watch out! have you updated your antivirus? your cpu cores are loaded 50%, if you get that much load when idle, that could be virus!
i cant put aside firefox either, i have lots of favorite add-ons.



Edited by: solidworm

 

[jeff4136]

> the VSS+trajpar releations clone


Uh huh. Been there since about 1997 (ACIS v3 (?) I think).


A 'household name' in mechanical CAD just got around to
interfacing enough, from their ACIS 7 libraries, so there
are sweep options other than a single trajectory / path,
constant section sweep. I think (guess, hearsay) it's like
Klemens' 'two rail' example but no "law" functions, i.e.
diameter = 5 + 2 * sin(320 * trajpar)
to get a similar shape if I understand correctly.


In part why I choke on assertions that there's some kind
of "technology race" on goingin low end / mid range
mechanical CAD. Think oil, precious gems, etc. where
the commodity is twenty year old hand-me-down functions
wrapped in shiny new graphic interfaces?

 

[klemen]

In pro e you can use as many trajectories as you want, but you can use relations alsso.
There is alsso trajpar relation.
see attached pictures

and i have no virus but i vas running one analysis in the background
see attached picture

best regards
Klemen

2008-12-13_104003_no_koment_1.rar

 

[design-engine]

you can do g2 surfacing in solid works since 2007 and boundary surfaces too. I never took solidworks that serious till 2007 if anyone wants to know the truth.I have a lot of solidworks cheerleader friends that loved that crap back in 1998. Shows what they know.

 

[mcgowanp]

Well this has been a wonderful and varied story. This is one time that I really dont mind getting off topic at all!!! The term gombeen comes to mind for the post origionator!!


Ah the never ending "my cad systems can beat yours" debate..


You know when I was younger, kids in our house had to kneel on the floor and have their dinner plate on the armchair cause we didn't have enough room at the dinner table (we did get to watch tv whilst eating dinner though ) the armchair became a table of sorts, not a very good one though. Same can apply with solid works. i can be a surface modeller, just not very effective one. Most of my work is very complicated surfacing, i spent a great deal of time working with long time SW users and doing some myself to replicate the proesurfacing geometry in sw, i wasn't looking for an exact replica as not all of the curves could have been absolutely replicated. we did not get close to the abilities of proe in surfacing, and i typically never use isdx, maybe just for curves.


One thing i did find was that all of the bells and whistles of glossy graphics etc really got in the way. Some things were very handy, like the 3d sketch ability. But the sw guys just kept deviating from the intended result to give me something that look lovely with no shawdow and nice surfaces, but was way off, sometimes 8-10mm from the example geo.


However, I remember about 8 years ago using sw as I was working designing elevation platforms, mostly sheet metal parts, casted and machine parts, real easy basic geometry but lots of features and big assy's. I found sw an absolute dream to work with at this job, sheet metal was wicked!! it was very fast and easy to get parts designed, even casted parts were nice and eas to do with regards to the casted part and the post machining part with holes drilled and surfaces grinded down, using the part configurator (i think it was called) i could very easily have the 2 variations of the smae model available. In this case solid works really hit the mark and did its job well. However when we get to surfacing, i know its come along way but it really has a lot left to do.


Jeff I enjoy learning more and more about surfacing from you, what do you do that you are so well versed in all this maths??


Paddy

 

[jeff4136]

> what do you do


I'm tempted to say I'm in shipbuilding to see what effect it has on
the 'impressionable' <g> but fact is; I'm just a cad monkey trying to
figure out what all the buttons do and how to get the most out of them.


> that you are so well versed in all this maths??


Actually, I'm a self professed arithmetard. It has to be pretty simple
or it just goes over my head. I have been lucky enough to ask some
right questions in the right places and then stumble over dots that
could be connected with the answers and I don't mind sharing what I
got for free in the first place with others that might find some value
in it, too.

 

[design-engine]

Hey jeff,

Why is it that hull designers like rhino for hull design?And where did they hide the unpattern command in WF?in 2001 it was hiding under local group.

 

[jeff4136]

Why do mechanical designers like Solidworks?


RMB -> Unpattern.

 

[design-engine]

There must be a tool for lofting that they like or something in the rhino tool set. And what strengths would Pro/ENGINEER offer those hull designers?

Check out this new class design engine is offering... called zbrush.

http://www.proetools.com/courses/zbrush/zbrush1.htm
Edited by: design-engine

 

[Jacoolo]

Most of my work is very complicated surfacing, i spent a great deal of time working with long time SW users and doing some myself to replicate the proesurfacing geometry in sw, i wasn't looking for an exact replica as not all of the curves could have been absolutely replicated. we did not get close to the abilities of proe in surfacing, and i typically never use isdx, maybe just for curves...


...But the sw guys just kept deviating from the intended result to give me something that look lovely with no shawdow and nice surfaces, but was way off, sometimes 8-10mm from the example geo...


...In this case solid works really hit the mark and did its job well. However when we get to surfacing, i know its come along way but it really has a lot left to do.



Paddy

I really do not want to put a cat among pigeons but...

well I am devoted Pro/E user. More I know more I feel confident about the things I am doing and claiming to understand. That is why I can easily convince anyone about advantage of Pro/E Assembly capabilities among other software.

Since I feel not so confident with surfacing tools and in additions SW seems to handle it(from the pics I`ve seen) very well, the differance between them and Pro/E advantage is to me not explict enough.

Patrick You seem to work on Consumer products, so I assume we are not discussing the high quality/order curves as it is in automotive industry. As this as a base can You highlight a little bit what exactly are the "areas/ challanges" that Pro/E surpass SW:

*shelling?

*filleting?

*curves - splines, realtions, graph(why to use them in consumer products at all?)?

You mentioned :SW users delivered You "way off" models. Frankly said - is this because of software or skills?

I really do support and advocate to be proud of Pro/E, but in this case - ordinary surfacing capabilities[no isdx] - I need particular examples of Pro/E advantage to have ohnest and clear opinion.

Don`t get me wrong - I am not claiming You`re saying mistakes. I just need proof to be ohnest with Pro/E superiority(if such really exists).

 

[design-engine]

skills. Solidworks users (generally speaking) are on the weak side.

 

[dgs]

I wish I could share the recent IGES or STEP model we received. There was some ID done in Alias, we think, that needed to implemented in SW. A deceptively simple warped box kind of shape. We fought with SW and could never exactly duplicate it. The tools simply weren't available in SW. For giggles, we tried Pro|E and had it build within an hour.

 

[mcgowanp]

Jacek, you should give Solid works a go yourslef. Never mind demos, images or marketing blurbs... .... theory informs, practice convinces!!

 

[Jacoolo]

I do really consider to give SW(30 day long trail available from net) a chance

Recently I`ve fetched from net Ed Eaton`s presantations: Curvy stuff 101,102,201 etc(Dimonte group).

Most things looks pretty similar to those in Pro/E.

So I wondered then - Where is this Pro/E superiority(still consider surfacing for consumer products)?

If I can follow Jeff - I am just a CAD monkey playing with toys, trying to figure them finaly out!

 

[design-engine]

its really simple.Pro/E is modular in that you want more functionality you pay for it. Mold Design - Cabling - Advanced assembly - (sheetmetal and basic surfacing are bundled w/ foundation) Mechanism - behavior modeling - mechanica - Pro/MAN and all the CNC tools.... basically everything that fits outside the bell curve.

Where are the vars? Design engine does not sell software!

 

[mcgowanp]

Jacek, I gonna go out on a limb here and say that you have never
actually done any surfacing for a commercial product?? I don't just do
consumer products. My web page is way out of date!! Guess what I will
be doing over Christmas holidays!!
I ain't bashing sw, as I said I think it has a lot to offer and I do enjoy
using it on certain products.
I'd love to have a project on ug again. I used it to about version 20 just
before nx came out. The advances were meant to be pretty good in the
nx versions.