Mastering Layers Q&A

[verge]

Glenn,


I never did hear back from the Pro-E rep I sent this assembly to the other day! Wonder how long it will take him to figure out that it really is the software that's causing the problem.


Well, at least you've confirmed my conclusion that I didn't do anything wrong!

Overall, though, ---

. We won't be upgrading to WF3 until our largest supplier does so. Which, frankly, I think is ridiculous, since we never give them Pro-E models. I don't know, I may have to have a conversation with management.


I see what you're saying about the simplified reps. They're not really as powerful. They work fine. Everyone else uses them. It's too bad, though, that people don't explore the layer functions - they're really powerful once you understand them.


I just convinced a young drummer friend of mine (he's very talented) to practice double stroke rolls. After a month, he told me he couldn't believe some of the things he could do now. He says he's kicking himself for not learning it earlier. That's just how I feel about layers in Pro-E.


Hey, Bill, don't you know you could be kicked out of the Tour de France for translating plasma?

They all say "it's just a phase", that doesn't mean it's not cheating!

Thanks again, Glenn!

 

[dgs]

We won't be upgrading to WF3 until our largest supplier does so. Which, frankly, I think is ridiculous, since we never give them Pro-E models. I don't know, I may have to have a conversation with management.

You are the client, you should upgrade when it's good for you. If your vendor can't come along, maybe you need a new vendor.


We are a consultancy. Our philosophy is that we use what ever the client needs us to. I currently have 2001, WF2 and WF3 on my machine (as well as SolidWorks 2006 & 2007). Once WF4 is live, I'll get that running so we're ready when our clients are.


We never want to be in a position that we can't do someone's work because of a version conflict.

 

[gkbeer]

I see what you're saying about the simplified reps. They're not really as powerful. They work fine. Everyone else uses them. It's too bad, though, that people don't explore the layer functions - they're really powerful once you understand them.


I just convinced a young drummer friend of mine (he's very talented) to practice double stroke rolls. After a month, he told me he couldn't believe some of the things he could do now. He says he's kicking himself for not learning it earlier. That's just how I feel about layers in Pro-E.



Thanks again, Glenn!

I haven't claimed that layers should be used instead of Reps. I've only made some comparisons about one to the other. Each has uses that the other just won't touch. No matter what, "Use what works best for each particular need." Layers work great for those pesky datum features and such. Reps are easier to organize for really large assemblies. Different parts of the overall task.

 

[gkbeer]

Verge,

Something you can do before embarking on a layer cleanup:

Use the find tool to search for all parts that you do not want to modify, say instances or parts with assembly cuts, or my personal fav, Released parts. Select them all and exclude them from the current rep. That way you can avoid changing them when doing mass layer updates.

 

[verge]

I'll check that out, too.

 

[dgs]

OK, I've got some time to play with this now and I've got questions.

First, what does the 'propagate status' pick do:


View attachment 4005


Second: Glenn, what menu pick did you use to wipe all the layers from an assy and the sub assys and components? I can highlight them all, but there's no delete pick that I can find.


I'm using WF2 M220.


Thanks!

 

[dgs]

More questions:


How do I add rules to an existing layer? I found the 'Rules' tab, but there's no way to add a rule. I clicked on the 'find' icon while in the rules tab and it seems to bring up a rule creation dialog, but I can't get it to add the rule I'm trying to create. This interface is maddening to say the least.

How do I add curve features to a layer? If I search for features by 3D curve, it's not picking all of them up. Some, perhaps most, are 2D sketched curves. There was no 'sketch' or 'curve' pick in the find tool.


Thanks again, I'm sure I'll have more.

 

[dgs]

Oh, and I figured out the delete thing. What a pain. You have to expand all the layer tree, select all the layers and then RMB on an actual layer, not the group symbol. Then you get a delete pick.


Sheesh.

 

[dgs]

OK, I'm getting there.


To select all curve features:


View attachment 4006


Also discovered that using look for feature and look by surface gets all the datum planes, but not all the surfaces. Huh?

 

[verge]

Doug,


When you're in the layer properties dialog box, you have to hit "edit rules..." in order to add a rule. Then hit "Add New". You can then use "or" or "and" for your operator. Then the feature you add to the layer will need to have either "this or that" or "this and that" in order to be included.


Also, once you've set your criteria in the search tool dialog box, hit "find now". This will give you a list of all of the features found that fit into your criteria. For a visual, simply highlight all of the features and hit the "add" button (>>), and every feature found will highlight in the model. This really helped me.


You may have already figured this out, but hope it helps.


Verge


P.S. Welcome to FunLand! (Fun With Layers?)


Verge

 

[dgs]

Yeah, fun.

Hey, I've already taken a client assy with a few dozen layers and a screen cluttered with datum planes, curves and surfacesand cleaned it up to a few layers with nothing but solid geometry on the screen in just a few minutes.

Still can't figure out some of these queries though. Try searching with 'Look For' set to quilt in a part with bunches of surfaces (ie quilts). It finds nothing, even though with the smart filter set to 'quilts' I can pick lots of them.

On adding rules - I've got no 'edit rules' button when there are no rules:


View attachment 4007

 

[verge]

Are you using the "find" technique to create the layers? I went ahead and deleted about a hundred layers from the mess I had - they were someone else's and I couldn't really follow them.


If you use the find technique you'll automatically have rules. You should be able to edit them then.

 

[verge]

I created every layer in my assembly using the "find" technique. I didn't create any layers by simply picking things to add to the layer.


That's just me...

 

[verge]

By the way, can you feel the power coursing through your veins yet?

 

[dgs]

Are you using the "find" technique to create the layers? I went ahead and deleted about a hundred layers from the mess I had - they were someone Else's and I couldn't really follow them.


If you use the find technique you'll automatically have rules. You should be able to edit them then.

Yeah, I am. I guess I'm just doing a "what if ..." then. What if I already have this layer and I want to add a rule to it. Or what If I'm creating a layer and want to add rule to it? Doesn't seem to be a way.


So, the only way to add a rule to a layer is to create it from scratch. And the only way to create a layer with a rule is NOT to use the layer dialog, but to use the FIND tool and the 'create rule' command. Notice how there is no mention of layers anywhere in that sequence?

Oh yeah, there's a lot of power here. Hidden, hard to decipher, difficult to comprehend power that will really be hard to get my users to wrap their mind around, but power.

 

[gkbeer]

OK, I've got some time to play with this now and I've got questions.

First, what does the 'propagate status' pick do:






Second: Glenn, what menu pick did you use to wipe all the layers from an assy and the sub assys and components? I can highlight them all, but there's no delete pick that I can find.


I'm using WF2 M220.


Thanks!

Propagate status will push the saved query (layer) into the submodels similar to how the extend layer function works. Except that it doesn't handle conflicts where layers already exist at all. The first model it comes to with a layer by that name and the process stops cold. Don't use the propagate pick. Use the extent layers function later.

Deleting layers in WF2 is a bit tricky. The for sure way to remove all layers is to follow this:

turn of the display of items
show all submodels
expand the layer tree fully
rt click on the top node (layers) and choose [select layers]
on any highlited model name rt click and choose delete

Again this is something that works a bit better in WF3

 

[gkbeer]

More questions:


How do I add rules to an existing layer? I found the 'Rules' tab, but there's no way to add a rule. I clicked on the 'find' icon while in the rules tab and it seems to bring up a rule creation dialog, but I can't get it to add the rule I'm trying to create. This interface is maddening to say the least.

How do I add curve features to a layer? If I search for features by 3D curve, it's not picking all of them up. Some, perhaps most, are 2D sketched curves. There was no 'sketch' or 'curve' pick in the find tool.


Thanks again, I'm sure I'll have more.

When the rules tab is selected go down to the options dropdown and check all three options. At a minimum select independent. Associative means to evaluate the layer every time the model regenerates. Non-Associative only evaluates when a feature is created.

Regeneration is faster or slower, depending on the number and complexity of rules and associative status setting.

Curves?
For curve features: / look for feature / look by feature /then select the type category and value.

For curve entities (the individual segments of curve generating features) try:
Look for 3d curve / look by 3d curve / then choose attributes name = *

Unless you have a need to selectively choose individual curve segments (entities) use the first method.

Edited by: gkbeer

 

[gkbeer]

OK, I'm getting there.


To select all curve features:



Also discovered that using look for feature and look by surface gets all the datum planes, but not all the surfaces. Huh?

I ran into the same issues you are having. The find dialog is complex and cryptic, but all those options are there to let you really search for items with great finesse.

Just keep remembering synonyms are not your friend in the find dialog. You need to be precise in defining the search. The word surface does not mean the same thing as as the word quilt.

Think about exactly what is to be found and why. Feature vs entity, surface or quilt, or do you want to search based on some specific attribute that may be shared by several types of features.

 

[dgs]

So, in order to createa rule I can't just have rules turned on (or enabled), I have to set them to be independent or associative. And independent means they are only evaluated when created and associative means evaluated at each regen. So what does 'enabled' do? I mean, if I can enable them but they are never evaluated, how is that enabled?

What's more, I can'thave them associative unless they are also independent. And I can have them associative and independent and not enabled. Does PTC understand what these English words mean?

Why not just say on or off, and evaluate once or evaluate always?


The folks responsible for this layering interface ought to be fired. Seriously. This is a mess. Great functionality, but horribly implemented.

 

[gkbeer]

Oh yeah, there's a lot of power here. Hidden, hard to decipher, difficult to comprehend power that will really be hard to get my users to wrap their mind around, but power.

Don't worry about them. Once you get familiar with the process and can show how quickly you can make an assembly conform to your layering standards. They will come around.